What is the fascination with a LPVO on an AR?

[vicious_cb]

I just have to laugh at threads like this. If I replaced LPVO with RDS we would be transported back to 2004 with the exact same arguments.

God help us if the average police officer is going to be running into a walmart in full gear and then make a standing 300 yard shot with his AR.
Most people don't shoot past 100 yards ever, officers don't even shoot their ARs in the academy past 100 yards. Love all these dudes who shoot at 50 yards and then think they are magically going to make a 300 yard head shot. Even if you have a 1 MOA AR with good ammo, from a bench, you're looking at a 3 inch group at 300 yards. You think an officer with an LPVO at 6x who does almost no training should be taking 300 yard head shots?

Come on guys, I like LPVs but 90% of these scenarios I read online are ridiculous.
LPVOs awesome for LE for PID and yeah they are a jack of all trades for someone who isnt hiking far with their gear.
Aimpoint for home defense, for 99.99% of people.
ACOG for hiking around. They are light, perfect magnification, good glass, cheaper than most quality LPVs. I have lots of optics but find myself grabbing an ACOG when heading out into the desert. I can blast a rabbit at 10 yards and I can see far out. LPVs are heavy and a pain when using in a buggy or vehicle. Aimpoints and ACOGs are hard to beat.

I really hate how people use the military as their justification also. These dudes overseas using LPVs are in a completely different situation than anyone at home. At home even as an officer you are accountable for the rounds you fire, in a way that people overseas are not.

I really am back in 2004. Did you really just use the "you arent high speed enough to need a _____." argument?

"A man's got to know his limitations"

Whenever the LPVO vs red dot debate comes up, it's always interesting the hear the reasoning behind people's choices.

I'm sitting on my front porch drinking coffee and reading M4C on my laptop. All around my house is thick vegetation and trees. From where I'm sitting, it's 50 yards give or take to the bend in my driveway. On either side of my house I have about 25-35 yards of visibility, and in the back it's about 50 if I'm on the back porch. If I go up to the balcony off the bedroom, I can see a bit further out into the woods but not much. If I walk to the bend in the drive way, I can see another 75 yards. If I walk a little further beyond that, it opens up to farm fields and houses. Since home defense is the primary purpose of my rifles, a red dot is more than adequate for me and the distances that I would need to use a carbine. The likelihood of me having to engage anyone out in the open is pretty slim. If I lived in the southwest or other wide open area, my needs may be different. I do shoot at much further distance at my spot in the woods than I would have to at home and do so with a red dot.

The positive ID thing is kinda funny to me. We harp on people about the 4 rules and not pointing a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy and being aware of your target and what's beyond it, then we tell them to crank up the magnification and point their rifle at something and make sure it's not the neighbor or one of their kids.

I know that there are people who may encounter a scenario where they need to take a 300+ yard shot, but it makes me wonder if that is a practical concern or not for many of the people using it as a reason, especially given the weight penalty of the optic. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with using a LPVO, I'm just not sure that many are being honest with themselves about the reasoning and I wonder how much time they spend shooting at distances greater than 300. Most people I see shooting rifles are shooting at 100 or less. Anyway, just food for thought.

Not trying to pick on you but Ive seen multiple posts in this thread with the same reasoning. This is a fallacy, I dont need to be far away to be hard to see especially if Im trying not to be seen.

[turnburglar]

Wait.... is this seriously a question in 2019?

Put it this way: In the competition world, what do they use? Why? They want to be as accurate as possible as fast as possible. It's kinda like the formula 1 of guns.

The ACOG is simply OK for an optic. Anyone who says its better than an LPVO because of 'durability a weight' hasnt used a quality LPVO. Flat out I used an ACOG and aimpoint in the military. A good LPVO butt****s both of them in almost every scenario. If I had to go back to afghanistan and had an optic choice, it would be a Vortex Razor. Oh wait, the dudes who had a choice did have those when I was there.

Really the ONLY arguement to have is WHICH LPVO to put on your AR.


Red dots are cute too.

[TomMcC]

In the competition world it's about equally divided between those that use magnification and those that use the RDS.

[Diamondback]

Wait.... is this seriously a question in 2019?

Put it this way: In the competition world, what do they use? Why? They want to be as accurate as possible as fast as possible. It's kinda like the formula 1 of guns.

The ACOG is simply OK for an optic. Anyone who says its better than an LPVO because of 'durability a weight' hasnt used a quality LPVO. Flat out I used an ACOG and aimpoint in the military. A good LPVO butt****s both of them in almost every scenario. If I had to go back to afghanistan and had an optic choice, it would be a Vortex Razor. Oh wait, the dudes who had a choice did have those when I was there.

Really the ONLY arguement to have is WHICH LPVO to put on your AR.


Red dots are cute too.

Offtopic: Any idea which model? I'm hoping the Razor is a viable ACOG substitute for a Rockpile Replica M16A4 while still keeping it plausible.

[Tuukka]

In the competition world it's about equally divided between those that use magnification and those that use the RDS.

Cannot really speak for USPSA 3-Gun, but internationally in rifle IPSC that is not true and mostly LPVO's in use.

Top end class a mix of Swarovski, Kahles, S&B, Vortex for example.

The dominant optic in the recent years in the top positions has been the Swarovski Z8i 1-8x

Back at the 2017 Rifle World Shoot in Russia:

Open class, Swarovski Z8i , world champion Teemu Rintala, silver Raine Peltokoski and bronze Jarkko Laukia

Fourth place went to Olle Ackehed from Sweden, using IIRC a Vortex Razor.

I wound up 7th, also shooting with the Z8i.

At this years Rifle World Shoot Jarkko won and Raine came in second.

[Eurodriver]

I just went back to an ACOG from a 1-8 NX8.

I like the simplicity of the ACOG, and it is almost a pound lighter.

[RHINOWSO]

I just went back to an ACOG from a 1-8 NX8.

I like the simplicity of the ACOG, and it is almost a pound lighter.

Next week, back to irons?

Wash, rinse, repeat, wash, rinse, repeat.

[Eurodriver]

Next week, back to irons?

Wash, rinse, repeat, wash, rinse, repeat.

No. Irons don’t have the ability to see into your window and check you out in the shower.

You really need magnification to see “you”

[opngrnd]

No. Irons don’t have the ability to see into your window and check you out in the shower.

You really need magnification to see “you”

Not gonna lie, this made me lol

[TomMcC]

Cannot really speak for USPSA 3-Gun, but internationally in rifle IPSC that is not true and mostly LPVO's in use.

Top end class a mix of Swarovski, Kahles, S&B, Vortex for example.

The dominant optic in the recent years in the top positions has been the Swarovski Z8i 1-8x

Back at the 2017 Rifle World Shoot in Russia:

Open class, Swarovski Z8i , world champion Teemu Rintala, silver Raine Peltokoski and bronze Jarkko Laukia

Fourth place went to Olle Ackehed from Sweden, using IIRC a Vortex Razor.

I wound up 7th, also shooting with the Z8i.

At this years Rifle World Shoot Jarkko won and Raine came in second.

I don't doubt you have a pretty good handle on what's going on in Europe. I was speaking strictly for what I see in the U.S. If you look at local matches and large regional matches you generally see a pretty good split between open/tac optics and limited, with a slight edge to the magnified scopes. I personally use a LPVO. I don't see as well as I use too.

I would add that PCC is getting bigger here also. All of them are using RDS's. One match I attend only allows the PCC to replace the rifle, the other one allows the PCC to replace the SG/pistol. You can still use your .223 on the long range stuff.