What is the fascination with a LPVO on an AR?

[thegreyman]

Fixed power optics like the ACOG are obsolescent. Good LPVOs give you 90-95% the capability of a RDS while giving you better a magnified sight picture than an ACOG.

LPVO = a slightly less forgiving RDS + low magnification scope

• Obsolescent for Vatican police? For mall security? For video games? Don't you think "obsolete" is a gross exaggeration? It is excellent optic in 1.5 ACSS configuration or 3.5 or 4.0 configuration for specific purposes.

[TMS951]

First I had an ACOG, this was around 2008. I was left wanting something better for close range.

Then the Aimpoint T1 when it came out. It was great up close, but wished I had the 4x at times. Also I found out I had astigmatism sometimes.

Then I got a Nightforce 1-4 nxs. This changed my life. I had the aimpoint (to an extent) and an ACOG in one. I also have everything in between.

I’m all LPV now. I’m keep buying them. I have bought three more since the Nightforce. I’m going to buy a Nightforce 1-8 next.

[WS6]

One point I would add to help answer OP’s question- the AR community has achieved widespread acceptance only in the last 15-20 years, with the expiration of the AWB, long duration of GWOT, and the proliferation of AR manufacturers and products. As time marches on, early adopters, military veterans, and long-time shooters have seen their eyesight worsen as they age. RDS were a great advancement in AR optics at the time, but LPVOs will only become more popular as the AR community ages.

Ironically, the RDS is the only optic my Dad can use effectively. Everyone's vision is different. Even my K16i was crap for him.

[jsbhike]

He is correct in that in LE we are not making shots at 300 yards. I know there have been a few at long distance, but lets be honest, it isn't anything even a little bit close to that sort of distance in real life, and that is even if we add in marksman engagements.

What he is missing is that if I need to make a shot through bushes, brush, cars, windows, or anything else where my center of mass is incredibly small, never mind having to make a head shot, there are some large variables coming into play that are not seen when someone runs around punching paper.

Figured out years ago (and long before I got an lpvo) that paper/steel targets don't have to be small or very far away to disappear from the unaided eye if they are the right/wrong color compared to the surroundings.

[glockshooter]

• Obsolescent for Vatican police? For mall security? For video games? Don't you think "obsolete" is a gross exaggeration? It is excellent optic in 1.5 ACSS configuration or 3.5 or 4.0 configuration for specific purposes.

A fixed power magnified optic mostly obsolete. The ACOG line is absolutely less than ideal as compared to current optics of that quality. Everyone the defends an ACOG ends up going with the RMR on top deal. So basically they are saying for a ACOG to be good it needs the ability to do 1x and have a magnifying ability. ACOGs were a huge step forward at the time. Now they don’t have the ability to keep up.

[AndyLate]

I edited this reply, in case anyone read it.

I realize I am coming from a different mindset, I am a Logistician, not a Tactician.

I would rather have every officer supplied with a quality carbine wearing a $400 RDS and 4 batteries per year. I accept they will not be ideally armed for every encounter, but that combination will give them the upper hand in the vast majority of shootings. It will also be easier and cheaper to train, qualify and maintain proficiency with that combination.

Like I said before, officers should be allowed to qualify with and carry a quality private purchase LPVO, hell the department should even offset $400 of the purchase. I just don't see it as the best choice for general issue.

Andy

[MistWolf]

• Obsolescent for Vatican police? For mall security? For video games? Don't you think "obsolete" is a gross exaggeration? It is excellent optic in 1.5 ACSS configuration or 3.5 or 4.0 configuration for specific purposes.

No, it's not an exaggeration. Fixed power scopes have been obsolete since the 80s or 90s. I remember when 4x scopes were the bread & butter of every scope maker in the business with the 6x being their premier model. Fixed power scopes were lighter, more rugged and had brighter, sharper glass. Variables were expensive, heavy, fragile and had POI shifts when changing magnification. Since then, optics technology has advanced by leaps and bounds and I can think of no practical reason to choose a fixed power scope over a variable. Indeed, the fixed power scope offerings of most makers is very limited and it's been years since I've been to any shop with any in stock.

[ABNAK]

Are the LPVO more subject to have zero knocked out of whack by bumping it? i.e. anymore so than a good RDS or ACOG?

When I see a LPVO on an AR I see a scope, and as such think it's vulnerable to all the things scopes have traditionally been subject to. Drop your 30.06 bolt gun while in the woods deer hunting and you're probably going to have to re-zero before you attempt to drop a critter. ACOG's, for example, have a reputation for ruggedness. Have LPVOs attained this level of ruggedness yet?

To be fair, I had an AR with a T-1 on it fall out of my safe and land right on the top of the RDS (figures, could have fallen 10 different ways but noooo). When I went to re-check the zero I was off by 6 inches at 50 yards! Yeah, nothing is perfect.

[ggammell]

****not an expert****

I think the mounts are the critical part of this. Mounts are designed to be taken off and remounted without shifting zero. There has to be a certain amount of combat use designed into these mounts now. Your old deer rifle with whatever scope rings was never designed like that. Also remember that most AR's are realistically 1-4 MOA guns depending on quality of gun, ammo and shooter.

[MistWolf]

Are the LPVO more subject to have zero knocked out of whack by bumping it? i.e. anymore so than a good RDS or ACOG?

No one questions the ruggedness of an ACOG but no one questions the ruggedness of an 03-A3 either. The era of the fixed power scope has passed. It's been surpassed by the variable scope. Someday the optical sight will be surpassed by electronic imaging sights when the technology has advanced to the point they are rugged, light and cheap. We'll be grumbling why optical sights are still viable although everyone now has a TV atop their M4s.