Current SOTA for Recce style optics

[noonesshowmonkey]

This wasn't match maker match maker match my carbine with an optic.

I was asking about mid power variables.

Close the thread.

[Vegasshooter]

I would respectfully disagree with the statement that they straddle the line without doing anything well. I would say they do everything pretty darn well, and that accounts for their extreme popularity. Let me throw another choice in the mix: the NF NX8. While smaller, and less expensive than the ATACR, it’s 90% of the scope. It’s a scope that’s 17oz, is the footprint of most 1-4’s, and is a FFP, daylight bright, 1-8. While the eyebox is not as free and easy as an Aimpoint, you have the ability to reach out and ID targets at the extremes of the 5.56’s capabilities. Step up to the ATACR, and you’re in Precision scope territory. I own and shoot both, so I’m intimately aware of the capabilities of each. Literally yesterday I was hitting, not just shooting “at”, but hitting steel silhouettes at 800yds with my KAC LPR. You’re not going to do that with an Aimpoint, and you won’t do it as well with an ACOG. I have an ACOG...in my safe. It is 90’s technology compared to what optics can do now. Not even in the same conversation. I also have the NF 2.5-10x24, on a .308 gasser. The ATACR 1-8 lacks that last 2X on the top end, but for a 5.56, I like the true 1X on the bottom to be able to run it like a red dot. The 2.5-10 needs an offset red dot to be able to run entries, or CQB drills. Point is 1-8 gets you out as far as a 5.56 can go, with a bottom end that’s a true 1X red dot.
Not that it doesn’t do any of it well, it does all of it great.

[drtywk]

I would like to add that a Recce Rifle is not a MK12 SPR, so feel free to put any optic on it that you want in the 1-4x, 1-6x, 1-8x, 2-7x, 2-10x range and you will be good.

[noonesshowmonkey]

deleted.

[drtywk]

What length barrel and what distances do you plan to shoot it at?

[Leftie]

I would respectfully disagree with the statement that they straddle the line without doing anything well. I would say they do everything pretty darn well, and that accounts for their extreme popularity. Let me throw another choice in the mix: the NF NX8. While smaller, and less expensive than the ATACR, it’s 90% of the scope. It’s a scope that’s 17oz, is the footprint of most 1-4’s, and is a FFP, daylight bright, 1-8. While the eyebox is not as free and easy as an Aimpoint, you have the ability to reach out and ID targets at the extremes of the 5.56’s capabilities. Step up to the ATACR, and you’re in Precision scope territory. I own and shoot both, so I’m intimately aware of the capabilities of each. Literally yesterday I was hitting, not just shooting “at”, but hitting steel silhouettes at 800yds with my KAC LPR. You’re not going to do that with an Aimpoint, and you won’t do it as well with an ACOG. I have an ACOG...in my safe. It is 90’s technology compared to what optics can do now. Not even in the same conversation. I also have the NF 2.5-10x24, on a .308 gasser. The ATACR 1-8 lacks that last 2X on the top end, but for a 5.56, I like the true 1X on the bottom to be able to run it like a red dot. The 2.5-10 needs an offset red dot to be able to run entries, or CQB drills. Point is 1-8 gets you out as far as a 5.56 can go, with a bottom end that’s a true 1X red dot.
Not that it doesn’t do any of it well, it does all of it great.

Yesterday I got behind an NX8 1-8 and was ringing steel out to 500 yards. I was extremely impressed with the optic, especially when compared side by side on nearly identical 18" barrel 5.56 ARs, one equipped with an NXS 2.5x10x42. I agree with Vegasshooter on nearly every point, except that I've seen the NX8 1-8 with Mk262 Mod1 consistently hit 18"x12" plates at 700 yards in the hands of an experienced shooter, and also dialed back to 1x to run nearly identically to an Aimpoint (although I agree that the eyebox takes a bit of getting used to). You simply don't have the same flexibility with a 2.5x10 alone, and you're definitely not going to have the speed or precision of the NX8 1-8 at distance if you're using an Aimpoint and magnifier.

TLDR is that a 1-6 or 1-8 FFP with an illuminated reticle (similar to the ATACR or NX8 optics from NF) make ACOGs and similar technologies basically obsolete, and really expand the capabilities of any rifle (10.5" barrels through 18" particularly). Definitely worth looking at if your engagement distances ever step outside 50-100 yards, and target ID is important to you.

[maximus83]

TLDR is that a 1-6 or 1-8 FFP with an illuminated reticle (similar to the ATACR or NX8 optics from NF) make ACOGs and similar technologies basically obsolete...

Do they really though? I'm good with LPV's and run a couple. But I'd still run an ACOG on one rifle if my vision could handle it (astigmatism). It depends on the uses for the rifle. If you value lightweight, ruggedness, and simplicity (less stuff to mess with = less stuff to fail), and want to prioritize those things on a given rifle, ACOG is a great optic, maybe the best optic available for that use case.

[Leftie]

Do they really though? I'm good with LPV's and run a couple. But I'd still run an ACOG on one rifle if my vision could handle it (astigmatism). It depends on the uses for the rifle. If you value lightweight, ruggedness, and simplicity (less stuff to mess with = less stuff to fail), and want to prioritize those things on a given rifle, ACOG is a great optic, maybe the best optic available for that use case.

Point well taken, and the TLDR from my last post is based on my opinion. Requirements drive equipment selection, and any optic choice depends on the uses for the rifle. Personally, I'd rather have an optic that I can dial down magnification to 1x for speed and red-dot like performance, and then increase/decrease magnification to balance speed and relative precision. Do LPVOs really have that much more stuff to mess with though if you choose one with capped windage and elevation? I understand the weight case, but I'd gladly trade the weight for more performance - again, that's my opinion.

ACOGs are indeed great optics and are very rugged, but I really have a hard time justifying putting one on top of one of my rifles given the other choices on the market (specifically LVPOs), especially with the reticle options available for LPVOs currently. ACOGs have such a relatively small "utility" window to me (albeit maybe because I've taken the time to learn enough science and mechanics behind shooting at distance to get the performance I want) compared to a 1-4x24 LVPO with a reticle that uses standard units of measurement - like MOA or MRAD (especially if you're shooting a round that doesn't quite match up to a BDC, or you are taking into account atmospherics and adjusting for them).

That said, ACOGs are pretty "dirt" simple, in that I've seen relatively novice shooters pick up a rifle and shoot ACOGs accurately at distance without any explanation of the reticle.

Again, all personal opinion on my decisions based on the state of the optic marketplace now. If any optic works for you over another one for your given purposes, use it if you can