Ra 5.7 Uppers

[olds442tyguy]

I don't think it's fair to assume Rhineland Arms is trying to pass this off as a real world upgrade. Rhineland specializes in novelty firearms, and I think they are great at innovating such products for that niche.

Just like their HK94/MP5 inspired rimfires, I don't think this set up is being designed for combat use. JMO.

That said, I think it would be a very interesting plinker if it were chambered in a less expensive rimfire caliber, especially on a registered receiver.

ETA: I just went to their site, and the Walther WA2000 inspired USG mag fed rifle is pretty cool looking too. While I'm not a fan of the 5.7, I do find such products amusing.

2nd edit: Wow! They're also offering a WA2000 inspired rifle in 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel also.

[CQB]

Good Morning.
None of your sources states anything other than generalities. If you have definitive information supporting your comments that all of the T's were killed by 5.7 as well as they were wearing armor, i would be interested in seeing it.

Unsure of your background, but CQB is by definition intimate and surgical.
"Spraying" 50 rounds in a bedroom sized area is something that i have never been taught in any of those entry classes i have attended; something i- or anyone i know -teaches; nor is it a TTP that i or anyone that i know uses.

Both Houston TX and Jacksonville FL used P90's. I am not aware if Houston still uses it, but having spoken at length with a J'ville SWAT cop who was involved in multiple shootings with it he had this to say.
"The gun is accurate and controlable. That is a good thing because you need to be able to hit the BG with a lot of rounds- they have little effect. The magazines crack and if we had it to do again, we wouldn't have bought them".

Unsure what you mean by the folowing.
"I for one would prefer what has been used for years..."
OK, then 5.56 would fall into that box. Even NYPD has been using that going back to the 70's, and the military units tasked with DA missions have been using M4 or MK18's for a great many years doing CQB. A great many police teams dropped the sub caliber guns as they are basically un- ergonomic and heavy pistols.
I'm fortunate in that i get to work with some very professional people who have access to a great number of platforms. 5.56x45 is a standard for a reason.
I am not sure what your use for the P90 is. If you are on a team or this is theoretical or whatever. Perforating armor isn't the only criteria. Hey- 22 LR will do that. Not everyone wears armor, and not all shots are taken at ranges under 7yds.
And i would be hard pressed to see the justification under the color of law for "spraying 50 rounds" in a domestic situation.

Who in the world ever said that a P90 is a replacement for an M4? The P90 is to be measured against a 9mm SMG's or better yet 9mm PDW's. Your point regarding 22lr is well put, however the same can be said for M4's with suppressors. In order to really utilize a suppressor you must use subsonic ammo, right? Isn't a subsonic .223 nothing more than a FMJ 22lr? Like I said before I am solid on 45acp's for CQB, I even like a JHP 9mm against soft targets. But, if I have to worry about soft body armor I would be more apt to have SS190's than a 9mm.
Are you telling me that your buddies department is issuing SS190's? That would be new news to me, because I'm pretty sure they don’t. And they may be using the P90 in the wrong application. If they issued HK UMP’s they would be prepared for 90% of their calls.
Why has this thread turned into a comparison of a 5.7 over a 5.56?
I referenced the 50rd CQB because that is the capacity of the P90. No, you wouldn't unload 50rds in a 10X10. But you also don’t chop a Browning BAR and call it an entry weapon.
For the last time a 5.7 is not a 5.56 replacement just as much as a .30 carbine was not a replacement for an M1Garand.
And my experience shouldn't be the question here, 03-21, 03-69 with 3/5 Lima should be enough. With that I’m done, Get Some.

[Pat_Rogers]

Thank you for your service- i have a very soft spot in my heart for 3/5. When were you with them?
Understand that i am just responding to your statements.
You did say that all of the T's at the Japanese embassy in Peru were killed by P90's and some were wearing body armor.
I asked for your sources and didn't get anything.
You brought up "spraying" 50 rounds in a 10'x10' room.
I understand that you are just dancing around, and so i'll just broadly assume that your don't have the info.
Your opinions on CQB are interesting, but don't match up to accepted wisdom. Do you have police experience? If so, where. Just curious as to how you have arrived at your assumptions/ decisions is all.

[Nitrox]

I think one very important questions has yet to be asked in this thread:


















What would Chuck Norris do?

[Robb Jensen]

I think one very important questions has yet to be asked in this thread:


What would Chuck Norris do?

[Pat_Rogers]

Excellent!
Of course, Chuck could probably deal death even with P90's!

[Harv]

Chuck would be sliding down a steel cable while engaging bad guys at 1oom's one handed with a P90 and scoring first rd hits..... cause that's what I would do.......

[ArchAngel]

To quote White Goodman from Dodgeball:

"F*ckin' Chuck Norris!"

[Nitrox]

-The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain.

-If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death.

-There are no disabled people. Only people who have met Chuck Norris.

-Chuck Norris once shot a German plane down with his finger, by yelling, "Bang!"






And last but not least:

-Chuck Norris had his Micro Uzi's converted to 5.7 and killed Peru.

[Hardgear, LLC]

From an Agency perspective, the P90 becomes an expensive "specialty item" that really doesn't have a place in most entry doctrine. If you're on an HRT, you do not go into a room expecting to spray 50 rnds. It does have some advantages like size and lack of muzzle blast. You could even argue ergonomics. These are offset by questionable terminal performance and the need to field, maintain and train on a different platform.....a specialized platform that does not have the versitilty of the m16 platform.

The design of the P90 is innovative, but IMHO, it is a solution looking for a problem.


Bomber


PS I am biased against the P90 because I don't like the ergonomics.