Firearm Rabbit Holes You Just Don't Go Down Anymore

[SteyrAUG]

There's an old saying, " 'Better' is the Enemy of 'Good Enough'." If that $2,500 rifle keeps you from paying for magazines, ammo, or training, then you're wasting your money if a $900 Colt LE6920 is good enough.

I sometimes wonder if people who pay $2,000+ for a 1911 are doing the same thing, but the 1911 is a different animal and I'm certainly no expert on them.

Actually it is "perfection is the enemy of good enough" and is usually used to justify an AK over an AR. The original example was the NASA zero gravity pen vs. the russian use of a pencil.

[Moose-Knuckle]

There's an old saying, " 'Better' is the Enemy of 'Good Enough'." If that $2,500 rifle keeps you from paying for magazines, ammo, or training, then you're wasting your money if a $900 Colt LE6920 is good enough.

Most AR guys have a box or two of spare parts, this includes take off pistol grips, handguards, stocks, sights, RIS's, etc. Currently a guy can pick up two Colt OEM1's and still have plenty left over for ammo, mags, and or range fees.

I sometimes wonder if people who pay $2,000+ for a 1911 are doing the same thing, but the 1911 is a different animal and I'm certainly no expert on them.

Yeah 1911's are a whole different animal not even in the same ballpark compared AR manufacturers.




But we haven't addressed another issue, the pleasure one derives from spending and acquiring things. The simple fact is most people like to buy things and the more they spend on said things the more their neurotransmitter surges dopamine. This is true for steaks, automobiles, rifles, watches, et al. I've seen studies where PhD's in the fields of neuropsychology and neurobiology conduct test on volunteers where they will blindfold the subjects and have them perform taste tests on various things like burgers, wine, beer, etc. The subjects are given the same product but are told one is more expensive than another, overwhelmingly the subjects choose the more expensive item as the best tasting.

[MorphCross]

Actually it is "perfection is the enemy of good enough" and is usually used to justify an AK over an AR. The original example was the NASA zero gravity pen vs. the russian use of a pencil.

Of course the truth is Fisher developed the pen independent of NASA and in truth it was just a happy chance that the pen came out in time for missions into space.

[Coal Dragger]

So are you trolling threads that mention AK's now along with some others or are you being serious with these posts?

If serious...




What has that opinion got to do with the conversation? I haven't seen anyone poo-poo on DI gas in this thread.





Now you are being obtuse, $2K+ KAC 5.56 carbines have not been banned, Finnish rifles have as per my post about filling a void in a Kalashnikov collector's hoard. Anyone that knows anything about pre-ban rifles knows there are not many Sako rifles that made it into this country. This equates to them being "a very expensive AK". But you already knew that.

I don't care about collecting. So the SAKO is just a fancy Finnish made AK that has no special functional advantages over a Bulgarian AK for example. You can protest all you want about that, but using your logic that is what it is. If an SR-15 is just an expensive DI AR from a functional standpoint, then a SAKO is just an outrageously overpriced AK. We're using your reasoning here, not mine.

[MountainRaven]

Of course the truth is Fisher developed the pen independent of NASA and in truth it was just a happy chance that the pen came out in time for missions into space.

And Russian Cosmonauts use Fisher's pen, as well.

I don't care about collecting. So the SAKO is just a fancy Finnish made AK that has no special functional advantages over a Bulgarian AK for example. You can protest all you want about that, but using your logic that is what it is. If an SR-15 is just an expensive DI AR from a functional standpoint, then a SAKO is just an outrageously overpriced AK. We're using your reasoning here, not mine.

The SAKO has better sights and a much better barrel than anything to ever come out of the Soviet bloc.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I don't care about collecting. So the SAKO is just a fancy Finnish made AK that has no special functional advantages over a Bulgarian AK for example. You can protest all you want about that, but using your logic that is what it is. If an SR-15 is just an expensive DI AR from a functional standpoint, then a SAKO is just an outrageously overpriced AK. We're using your reasoning here, not mine.

So you are now part of the group on this forum who troll threads that mention AK's and you like your high doses of dopamine.

Cool.

You still haven't answered my question of what a $2K+ SR-15 can do that a sub $1K 6920 cannot.

[Coal Dragger]

Why should I answer that? You don’t seem interested in the answer.

I find it amusing that you apply your values selectively in this instance. A $2K 5.56 AR variant is of no value to you because it does nothing within your envelope of uses that an approximately $1K Colt does. You see zero function difference and do not care about refinements and improvements to the design enough to acknowledge those improvements as worthy of consideration. You throw up objections about proprietary parts, even though I’ve never heard of an E3 bolt failing. Hell the KAC barrels are evidently capable of a useful service life way beyond that of a Colt barrel, admittedly both are capable of burning enough ammo you could have bought a decent used car.

Yet you lust after an even more expensive, rare, and unobtainable AK variant that literally has no supply of spare parts at all in this market. Even though that SAKO AK is functionally no better than a Russian or Eastern European AK. By your logic applied to AR variants the SAKO is pointless and stupid because a much cheaper AK that will last just as long, and is more widely used (evidently your metric of excellence) and will launch bullets of your desired caliber just like the SAKO. You justify this want from the standpoint of a collector and AK enthusiast, not a user who simply desires a functional durable long gun for the minimum cost possible.

All of that is fine, but it is amusing watching you twist yourself up justifying your tastes while you Pooh Pooh those things you don’t like (even though you have not tried them). Intellectual dishonesty or inconsistency is rampant on enthusiast forums, and I’m guilty of it as well.

I’ll leave you with this explanation in as much as it will ever sink in for you: I like the Knight’s Armament gun’s because they’re very well made, and utilize what I consider substantive improvements in both the design and function of the DI M4/AR. I like them for the good accessories included that taken in balance reduce the relative cost compared to other options on the market. At the end of the day I appreciate the incremental improvements in user friendliness of the SR-15 versus my Colt, to me the improvements are worth the money; not from a collector standpoint but as a shooter. The KAC is easier to shoot well. You might not care about that, it sounds like you’re more interested in gun collecting. Which is fine.

As for the SAKO, where do you get this notion that I’m bashing on AK’s or the SAKO? I’d love to have one, or a Valmet. They represent and deliver a similar level of attention to detail, quality, and improvements to the AK that the SR-15 does to the AR. I appreciate that sort of dedication to best effort design and manufacturing, regardless of firearm type.

[SteyrAUG]

Of course the truth is Fisher developed the pen independent of NASA and in truth it was just a happy chance that the pen came out in time for missions into space.

Was just using the example, wasn't trying to say Nasa designed it.

[JoshNC]

Ummm, what’s with all the banter over the Sako? Everyone knows the SwissArms 550/551/553 is the pinnacle of the AK design.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Why should I answer that?

Q&A is part of, well you know discussion forums and basic human syntax.

You don’t seem interested in the answer.

Actually I'm very interested to the answer of my question hence why I have asked you it multiple times now.

I find it amusing that you apply your values selectively in this instance.

Um yeah, I haven't discussed "my values" in this thread thus far and find your emotional attachment to an inanimate object utterly entertaining.

A $2K 5.56 AR variant is of no value to you because it does nothing within your envelope of uses that an approximately $1K Colt does.

So once again, what does a $2K+ 16" DI 5.56 AR do "within your envelope" that a sub $1K 16" DI 5.56 AR cannot? You do realize that is a legitimate question and not a personal affront against you right?

You see zero function difference and do not care about refinements and improvements to the design enough to acknowledge those improvements as worthy of consideration. You throw up objections about proprietary parts, even though I’ve never heard of an E3 bolt failing. Hell the KAC barrels are evidently capable of a useful service life way beyond that of a Colt barrel, admittedly both are capable of burning enough ammo you could have bought a decent used car.

So your all butt hurt because "I don't acknowledge perceived improvements" on a better mouse trap. Yeah I never "objected" to any proprietary parts, rather I merely pointed out the fact they're there and that some consumers might not find that to be advantageous.

But reading comprehension is a thing, post #112 on page six of this thread:

I have no doubt that Mr. Knight and his company has taken Mr. Stoner's design to the next level. But as with all things there comes a point of diminishing return. No one is saying that KAC does not make a solid product. For me not only does the cost put them out of my interest but so does their proprietary components. If one of my AR's experiences a malfunction / critical component failure I can literally drop in any bolt, ejector, etc. and keep it running.

Yet you lust after an even more expensive, rare, and unobtainable AK variant that literally has no supply of spare parts at all in this market.

You sir are the one who for whatever reason first mentioned a Sako AK variant in post #104 on page six. I simply agreed with you in wanting one due to the manufacturer and their rarity and now you are stuck on this Sako tangent which is epic btw.

Even though that SAKO AK is functionally no better than a Russian or Eastern European AK.

How do we know this to be fact? The Finnish, Swiss, and Israelis all made refinements on their respective Kalashnikov variants and are regarded with a higher standard than Russian, CHICOM, or any of the Eastern Block nation variants.

By your logic applied to AR variants the SAKO is pointless and stupid because a much cheaper AK that will last just as long, and is more widely used (evidently your metric of excellence) and will launch bullets of your desired caliber just like the SAKO. You justify this want from the standpoint of a collector and AK enthusiast, not a user who simply desires a functional durable long gun for the minimum cost possible.

To date I can think of no semiautomatic AR variants that are banned, well at least in my state. If any of them were to be banned the ones out there in the wild would go up in value though the AR market is completely saturated and have become the proverbial dime a dozen when compared to the number of Finnish AK's available on the US commercial market. Rarity commands a premium price with regards to collectible goods.

All of that is fine, but it is amusing watching you twist yourself up justifying your tastes while you Pooh Pooh those things you don’t like (even though you have not tried them). Intellectual dishonesty or inconsistency is rampant on enthusiast forums, and I’m guilty of it as well.

I'm not the one twisting myself up and justifying my tastes, look no further than the closest mirror. I have over 18K posts on this forum, please provide me a link were I "Pooh Pooh" on KAC or any other manufacturer of a known quality and said I don't like them. Asking you what a 16" 5.56 KAC rifle can do that a 16" 5.56 Colt rifle cannot has really got you bent around the axle hasn't?

I’ll leave you with this explanation in as much as it will ever sink in for you: I like the Knight’s Armament gun’s because they’re very well made, and utilize what I consider substantive improvements in both the design and function of the DI M4/AR. I like them for the good accessories included that taken in balance reduce the relative cost compared to other options on the market. At the end of the day I appreciate the incremental improvements in user friendliness of the SR-15 versus my Colt, to me the improvements are worth the money; not from a collector standpoint but as a shooter. The KAC is easier to shoot well. You might not care about that, it sounds like you’re more interested in gun collecting. Which is fine.

Yeah that is not what I asked you at all.

You are more than entitled to spend your hard earned money where and when you choose to. I've never once suggested otherwise. This is a firearm forum comprised of end users, collectors, industry pros, gun geeks, etc. There is no wrong answer for why a guy chooses what he chooses.

As for the SAKO, where do you get this notion that I’m bashing on AK’s or the SAKO? I’d love to have one, or a Valmet. They represent and deliver a similar level of attention to detail, quality, and improvements to the AK that the SR-15 does to the AR. I appreciate that sort of dedication to best effort design and manufacturing, regardless of firearm type.

I don't think you were bashing AK's though that would be perfectly fine if you were, after all you are the one who brought Sako AK's into this conversation with regards to wanting to acquire one. I simply asked if you were trolling because over the last two years there has been an uptick of trolling in threads that discuss AK's for some reason.