Muzzle device sitting on muzzle instead of barrel shoulder

[Artiz]

I recall reading a thread talking about this a long time ago, I've been searching for a while without finding it so here goes.

Specifically talking flash hiders that do not need to be indexed, like AAC blackouts, NOT suppressor-bearing hiders, is it considered acceptable to install one without crush or peel washers and simply torque it down on the face of the barrel, that is, the hider is sitting on the face of the muzzle instead of the shoulder of the barrel behind the threads? Meaning the muzzle device does not contact the shoulder of the barrel at all.

Knowing many barrel designs simply don't have a shoulder (or too small of a shoulder) to hold a washer/muzzle device due to their small diameter, I'd be inclined to think this would be fine.

However has anyone found detriments towards accuracy and/or strenght of using this method?

[MistWolf]

I would not be comfortable tightening a muzzle device against the muzzle. I'd be worried it would distort the crown.

[Chris Bonesteel]

Assuming the crown is cut square to the bore, i cant see it causing any issues. Assuming that the flash hider in question also has a face in the proper position that is also square.

[GH41]

I recall reading a thread talking about this a long time ago, I've been searching for a while without finding it so here goes.

Specifically talking flash hiders that do not need to be indexed, like AAC blackouts, NOT suppressor-bearing hiders, is it considered acceptable to install one without crush or peel washers and simply torque it down on the face of the barrel, that is, the hider is sitting on the face of the muzzle instead of the shoulder of the barrel behind the threads? Meaning the muzzle device does not contact the shoulder of the barrel at all.

Knowing many barrel designs simply don't have a shoulder (or too small of a shoulder) to hold a washer/muzzle device due to their small diameter, I'd be inclined to think this would be fine.

However has anyone found detriments towards accuracy and/or strenght of using this method?

Where are you seeing skinny barrels without shoulders? I have never seen one. I have never seen an AR barrel less than .625 diameter and all had shoulders much larger than .625. Even if you cut the shoulder off and rethreaded the muzzle you would still have a shoulder big enough to support a PA shim. The ID of PA shims is only a few thousands larger than the major thread diameter. Assuming a standard 1/2-28 thread is used. I am not sure I have ever seen a flash hider that wasn't bored more than an eighth deeper than the threads. What would the muzzle bottom out on? The threads crashing on each other??

[Jwknutson17]

Knights SR25 guns index off of the muzzle of the barrel. They do not have a shoulder to index / time off of. It is all done on the muzzle of the barrel. This method has never been an issue.

[NongShim]

Surefire muzzle devices come with instructions for timing off the muzzle vs. a shoulder.

[GH41]

Assuming the crown is cut square to the bore, i cant see it causing any issues. Assuming that the flash hider in question also has a face in the proper position that is also square.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

[556Cliff]

The Smith Vortex bottoms out on the muzzle face, no washers required.

[MistWolf]

Assuming the crown is cut square to the bore, i cant see it causing any issues. Assuming that the flash hider in question also has a face in the proper position that is also square.

I wasn't talking about a crown that's not square.

Now that I think about it, it's possible that compressing the muzzle is better than stretching it.

[GH41]

I wasn't talking about a crown that's not square.

Now that I think about it, it's possible that compressing the muzzle is better than stretching it.

At 20 ft/# you are NOT stretching or compressing anything. Tell me how you could compress without stretching anything. Typical claim based on internet BS. Draw yourself a picture depicting where the forces oppose each other in both scenarios.