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Clint: I think these guns are all much more accurate then we are, lol. But I guess if you would shoot it from a bench, the MP5 would be "slightly" more accurate at distance.
But with standart ball ammo, you should be able to constantly hit a target at 100-150 meters, with an Aimpoint or EOTech mounted, that is sighted in for 50 yards, if you also know your hold over.
But that's actually phenomenal for a PDW like the MP9, because it was made for the 25 meter mark.
Last edited by swis_tac_life; 10-11-18 at 12:55.
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CDR_Glock: For being an official firearms collector you need to own enough guns lol. But these requirements differ from state to state ("state" = "Kanton" in Switzerland)
Yes you can call it "interesting" or "bullcrap" - whaterver you prefer lol.
Demn that's not funny! A 6-12 month wait for a machine gun?? For a machine gun permit I only have to wait about 3-5 days.
And this machine gun I own was in the Yugoslavian Wars and it only cost me 1000 bucks at my local firearms distributer!
The MP9 was like brand new and it only cost me 800 Bucks because it was in use by our KSK (SWAT) units. Full-Auto guns are very cheap here. But first you need to be an officially licensed firearms collector for that..
Last edited by swis_tac_life; 10-11-18 at 12:53.
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That’s amazing. I wonder if I could move there long enough to get my machine gun, and then move back.Originally Posted by swis_tac_life
Congratulations on the new purchase. Thanks for the pros and cons. It will be years before we can them in semiauto.
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CDR_Glock: A very nice litle range have you built there dude!
You're welcome!
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Thanks. I use the plastic trash cans to store my supplies from rain (spare bolts, spray paint cans, etc). I want to get a bench so I can set things onto it. I can shoot out to 50 yards, right now. But further if I can have a decent shooting bench.
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Warning: the following should be read with tongue planted firmly in cheek even though there's some kernels of truth sprinkled within.
Careful, your allegiance to Switzerland is showing selecting the Swiss made TP9/MP9 as your favorite. lol I can't let this Call of Duty fanboism go unchecked so... here we go....
I'm not saying it's bad but the "hand finds hand" thing is highly overrated. I feel it's more useful in a pure handgun scenario that has no stock, no suppressor, no optic and no mass adding accessories. Personally, when it comes to something with more substance & weight, I prefer the workspace reload where it's closer to my line of sight while elevating slightly and easier to remove support hand and replace support hand. Less movement & distance traveled = better IMO. Speaking of ergos: that cross-block safety on the MP9/TP9 is just stupid. Just an example of something that on paper seems like a good idea until you actually fire the thing and your right hand is bleeding after a few hours or so of running the thing. To be fair they did correct this in later models. Also... that cheek weld doe. Oooff! You have to REALLY think that system's benefits outweigh the horrid feel when actually firing the thing between the knife edge cheek weld and the dagger in your side cross-block safety are big time negatives and hard to get past in use. On paper everything you've said is great. In real world use... that cheek weld & safety will make you want to turn the thing around on yourself after anything more than a few mags due to the way it cuts into your cheek trying to get a good sight picture. If you hip fire like some sort of movie gangster than I can see how this wouldn't matter but in real world use this is more than a small issue if you plan to fire the thing.
I also see you didn't mention cost. For most people cost is a concern. The price difference of a CZ Scorpion for instance is drastically different than the TP9. I can buy not two but THREE Scorpions of the price of the TP9. To put it another way, I can buy a CZ Scorpion, do a "k conversion", 922(r) compliant side folder stock conversion, RDS, trigger upgrade, suppressor AND the tax stamps (yes, two) and still have money left for ammo to fire the thing after it's all said and done. A lot. Tell me that TP9 w/o a stock, RDS, any other mods or even ammo will outwork that decked out Scorpion with mods and, most importantly, ammo. While we're on cost, you mention yours came with two mags being "lucky" yeah, you got that right. If you need a 3rd... good luck! lol I can buy Scorpion mags for under $20 retail. Just like all of it's other parts that are reasonably priced and plentiful. I can't say the same for the B+T TP9. It's a much more expensive initial investment and costs more to operate long-term as well and we're not talking about a slight margin here in both categories.
As for shooting suppressed, this is another area I give the nod to the Scorpion (and most other similar type firearms for that matter) as to shoot the TP9 suppressed you MUST use their proprietary suppressor due to the rotating barrel for the function of the firearm. It's big, bulky, heavy, expensive, doesn't perform any better than much less expensive 9mm suppressors and if you ever need a repair... good luck! No thanks. Sure when you fork out all of the money and everything is functioning properly it suppresses very well but with that cruise missile hanging off of the front end... it better. I can use all of my different suppressors on all of my hosts (save for a few thread differences here and there than can be addressed via quick change pistons) they cost much less and if I ever need them serviced I'm out shipping and a week or two w/o my can.
In the end, a MP9/TP9 is a glorified Glock 17/18 save for the expensive magazines, less ergonomic design, better stock option and MUCH higher price tag. You claim it's the best SMG and it doesn't even really fit into that category as it's more of a PDW than an SMG. That doesn't mean it's not a fun item to own but let's call a spade a spade. I'm sure you will read parts of my post as hate but it only seems that way to offset your extreme fanboism. I don't think the "perfect" weapon system exists so claiming one with so many flaws is the pinnacle and nobody else is even in contention is a little bit silly.
Like I said, I'm no hater but you make this thing sound like the 2nd coming of the almighty that is infallible.
p.s. Your beloved firearm is actually Austrian with some lipstick applied.
I'm not fat, I'm tactically padded.
Tactical Commander Fast Action Response Team (F.A.R.T.)
Senior Member
That’s amazing. I wonder if I could move there long enough to get my machine gun, and then move back.
... It will be years before we can them in semiauto.
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They are available right now
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/pro...-9x19-from-b-t
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Jer:
This Austrian SMG "with lipstick" - as you call it - is in use as the chosen PDW for protecting the Ex French President as well as the actual French President (the small guy in the middle is Ex President Hollande). Here you can see the French Secret Service using the B&T MP9:
In the most of my comments of how the MP9 stacks up against the MP5 etc. I said that it is a PDW. So I don't know how you were able to miss my words in your bullcrapy comment. When the President of one of the richest countries world wide ist protected by the MP9 and not by a Scorpion, what does that tell you? That you know better then the French Secret Service (or pretty every Secret Service worldwide), many military's and SWAT Teams around the globe lol? Actually you seem to just be a troll to me.
You also only talk about the TP9 which I wouldn't buy because a semi auto 9mm pistol is useless next to a Glock in my opinion (if you want a semi auto 9mm - get yourself a Glock and put a stock on it, if you need one). The one I own and the one I'm talking about here, is the full auto MP9 which costs twice as much as the regular TP9 semi pistol. A new MP9 from the B&T factory costs 3000 Bucks in Switzerland. The one I own was like brand new and still had the factory lubricant on it and I only paid 800 bucks for it at my local firearms distributor because it is an Ex SWAT ("KSK" in Switzerland) firearm. And my MP9 has no cross block safety by the way. The safety is like the safety selector of the AR15 platform (look at my pictures please) and the ergos are perfect in my opinion. Handling it is awesome and everything is where it should be. You also talk the whole time about the pricing. The Scorpion Evo 3 costs more then a TP9 in Switzerland (the same with mags) so the pricing is actually no argument for me.
But anyway. I also shot the Scorpion Evo 3 of a friend of mine (I also shot it suppressed) and it really is a good firearm and it feels solid. But The MP9 has just much more benefits and shooting it even feels better to me. Because the original B&T MP9 is not available in the US (and will likely never be) you will never be able to see it or touch it, so how the heck can you tell the Scorpion Evo (semi auto) would be better then the full auto MP9? the Scorpion is much bigger, heavier, it's rate of fire is slower and it's accuracy is equal to the MP9 so why - excepts the "US pricing" - should you go with the Scorpion Evo?
You also said that the bolt closure system is stupid.. Well but it is in use by the French Secret Service as shown (probably it is in use in every government of the western civilisation), it is in use by many military units, Personal Protection Units and SWAT Teams around the globe since more then 15 years and yet there was never ever a reliability issue of it reported which would cause it to fail in any situation. I have also never heard of that bleeding hand thing you talk about, I don't know from where you got that rumor. And by the way, how long is the track record of the Scorpion Evo 3 again? ;D
The B&T MP9 QD can is actually the best SMG can out there. It reduces the sound by 34DB and because of it's volume, the sound as well as the sound reduction is awesome and Hollywood alike. This can is made out of steel and it's full-auto rated. It weighs just a little bit more then a B&T Impuls-IIA Pistol suppressor (which I also own and it's simply the best pistol can out there as well - see the video of MAC on YT) so it is very light weight as well. So why should you wanna go with another can?
The good thing for us Swiss people is, that the B&T factory is about 1.5 hours away from me. If the suppressor or whatever is shot out, I can just send it in to B&T and get a new one with the old serial number within 2 weeks (the old one gets destroyed by B&T then), without any paperwork. You only have to pay for the new one. So also the availability is no argument for me.
The looks of the MP9 and it's can is a matter of taste but I love it.
Best regards from Switzerland
Last edited by swis_tac_life; 10-12-18 at 06:40.
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That's awesome! I'd love to have a range like!
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Out of curiosity what are the requirements/timeframe to get “collector” status is Switzerland? Do you need permits to shoot with suppressor as well? I’m more curious about approval times for each item.
As mentioned, here in the US you can only buy machine guns that were manufactured BEFORE 1986. As you can imagine supply is limited so its VERY expensive (i.e. $25k-$30k for M16). The approval process takes between 6-9 months, however once approved there are no restrictions on use. Suppressors are much cheaper ($200-$1000) but still have the 6-9 month approval process, again no restrictions on use though.
I always find it fascinating to talk to “gun people” from other countries and learn about their requirements/laws.
Last edited by sidewaysil80; 10-12-18 at 02:26.
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