.308 vs 6.5mm Creedmore

[Pappabear]

Has anyone tried the fusion MSR in 6.5? I love the speer gold dot bullet, how is accuracy and effect of target?

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I bought the American Gunner from Sportsman warehouse with MOA results, good stuff for slinging and Sellior & Bellot 6.5 ammo cheap , I mean cheap like $300 for 500 cheap both are 140 grain bullets BTHP stuff both Moa

PB

[Jwknutson17]

I would also keep in mind that 30cal pills have come a long way since the SMK bullet. Most folks are comparing Berger or Hornady 6.5 bullets to older .308 pills. Some of the new .308 pills have much higher BC and it narrows the gap. I have a 16 inch 308 barrel in my Q the fix and a 17 inch 6.5cm barrel also. For being a LW handy hunting gun on deer inside 500. The 6.5 using 147gr eldx vs the 178gr 308 eldx the 6.5 will never pass the energy of the 308 at any point through 1000 yards and beyond. Inside that 500 it's a huge spread. With a very very slight wind advantage to the 6.5 I don't see it worth it on game. I don't have the ft.lbs numbers in front of me this am but it was not worth it to go away from 308 when comparing similar length barrels.

Shooting the magnums with these new high BC pills just blows my expectations at distance. The 225 gr .308 Hornady eld pills I shoot in my 300 Norma Magnum have a bc of .777. that's a G1 also. Crazy. For game at any ethical distance based on your experience and skills, I always pick the higher energy caliber within reason.

Good for the guy who shot that bull at 1550 yards with a 6.5. I say thats just plain stupid. I would say he should have shot it with something else. Yea it may have killed it, but it wasnt the proper tool for the job. Glad he was able to get another round on it. Great bull none the less. At that distance he should have been using a 300wm with 200gr plus pills at a very minimum and ideally an ultra Magnum, 300NM, or a 338. I personally don't pick up the minimum caliber to barley get the job done. For hunting big game, pick one that just gets it done. For me, the higher energy rounds are my choice. Yea yea I know shot placement is key, so if that was the only case, that seems to be the main argument with small caliber big game hunters, then a 22lr will do if hit in the correct place. Right??

I also do own a few 6.5 guns, so I appreciate the round for what it is. Along with many, many, other calibers. I just don't think 6.5 is a elk hunting gun. And I don't use a 308 win either. My opinions of course.

[BrigandTwoFour]

I appreciate the discussion here.

My own research turned up that there really isn’t a whole lot of difference up to about 600 meters or so.

I’ve had an unfinished large frame AR for many years now. Stuck in barrel choice. I think the plan right now is to finish it with a 16” 308 barrel. I don’t get many opportunities to shoot past 300 these days (hence why this project has lingered, I started it when I had ready access to a 1000 yard range). I figure a suppressed 16” semi works great for my uses.

I have a 20” bolt gun that I also plan on rebarreling to a 22” 6.5 CM. That would meet my long range needs if I can ever get back to a place with the distance.

[Tx_Aggie]

I would also keep in mind that 30cal pills have come a long way since the SMK bullet. Most folks are comparing Berger or Hornady 6.5 bullets to older .308 pills. Some of the new .308 pills have much higher BC and it narrows the gap. I have a 16 inch 308 barrel in my Q the fix and a 17 inch 6.5cm barrel also. For being a LW handy hunting gun on deer inside 500. The 6.5 using 147gr eldx vs the 178gr 308 eldx the 6.5 will never pass the energy of the 308 at any point through 1000 yards and beyond. Inside that 500 it's a huge spread. With a very very slight wind advantage to the 6.5 I don't see it worth it on game. I don't have the ft.lbs numbers in front of me this am but it was not worth it to go away from 308 when comparing similar length barrels.

Shooting the magnums with these new high BC pills just blows my expectations at distance. The 225 gr .308 Hornady eld pills I shoot in my 300 Norma Magnum have a bc of .777. that's a G1 also. Crazy. For game at any ethical distance based on your experience and skills, I always pick the higher energy caliber within reason.

Good for the guy who shot that bull at 1550 yards with a 6.5. I say thats just plain stupid. I would say he should have shot it with something else. Yea it may have killed it, but it wasnt the proper tool for the job. Glad he was able to get another round on it. Great bull none the less. At that distance he should have been using a 300wm with 200gr plus pills at a very minimum and ideally an ultra Magnum, 300NM, or a 338. I personally don't pick up the minimum caliber to barley get the job done. For hunting big game, pick one that just gets it done. For me, the higher energy rounds are my choice. Yea yea I know shot placement is key, so if that was the only case, that seems to be the main argument with small caliber big game hunters, then a 22lr will do if hit in the correct place. Right??

I also do own a few 6.5 guns, so I appreciate the round for what it is. Along with many, many, other calibers. I just don't think 6.5 is a elk hunting gun. And I don't use a 308 win either. My opinions of course.

You make a lot of excellent points. I love my rifles that are chambered in 6.5 creedmoor, but like anything else I think it's important to know the limitations of a particular tool, and to choose the best tool for the job when possible.

At 1550 yds those 147gr 6.5 Creedmoor rounds were subsonic and only carrying in the neighborhood of 400 fl/bs of KE, about 1/3 of the minimum KE recommended for an ethical shot on an Elk. Sure the Bull is dead, and the shooter is clearly a skilled marksman, but to me it suggests a lack of respect for the potential to cause the animal unnecessary suffering. I'd be interested to know if those bullets expanded at that distance, especially since the 147gr Hornady is a Match bullet and not the ELD-X expanding hunting bullet.

If you go strictly on Kinetic Energy the Creed (143gr ELD-X at 2700 mv) is adequate for Elk out to 500-550 yards.

[B52U]

You make a lot of excellent points. I love my rifles that are chambered in 6.5 creedmoor, but like anything else I think it's important to know the limitations of a particular tool, and to choose the best tool for the job when possible.

At 1550 yds those 147gr 6.5 Creedmoor rounds were subsonic and only carrying in the neighborhood of 400 fl/bs of KE, about 1/3 of the minimum KE recommended for an ethical shot on an Elk. Sure the Bull is dead, and the shooter is clearly a skilled marksman, but to me it suggests a lack of respect for the potential to cause the animal unnecessary suffering. I'd be interested to know if those bullets expanded at that distance, especially since the 147gr Hornady is a Match bullet and not the ELD-X expanding hunting bullet.

If you go strictly on Kinetic Energy the Creed (143gr ELD-X at 2700 mv) is adequate for Elk out to 500-550 yards.

624 ftlbs for 147gr ELDM going 2787fps mv. 2 hits 4 inches apart. Keep in mind Utah high altitude, less drag.

Bullet retrieved.

[AndyLate]

624 ftlbs for 147gr ELDM going 2787fps mv. 2 hits 4 inches apart. Keep in mind Utah high altitude, less drag.

Bullet retrieved.

That is stunningly good shooting. I doubt if I could put 2 rounds 4" apart at 500 yards in the field.

Andy

[B52U]

That is stunningly good shooting. I doubt if I could put 2 rounds 4" apart at 500 yards in the field.

Andy

If you are interested in the original post or more pictures, check out Long Range Shooters of Utah facebook group. This guy is pretty famous in that group. This group also has a youtube channel where they host the "milk jug challenge". Tons of good LR shooting material.

[markm]

Good for the guy who shot that bull at 1550 yards with a 6.5. I say thats just plain stupid. I would say he should have shot it with something else. Yea it may have killed it, but it wasnt the proper tool for the job. Glad he was able to get another round on it. Great bull none the less. At that distance he should have been using a 300wm with 200gr plus pills at a very minimum and ideally an ultra Magnum, 300NM, or a 338. I personally don't pick up the minimum caliber to barley get the job done. For hunting big game, pick one that just gets it done. For me, the higher energy rounds are my choice. Yea yea I know shot placement is key, so if that was the only case, that seems to be the main argument with small caliber big game hunters, then a 22lr will do if hit in the correct place. Right??

I tend to agree.