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Thread: PDW Caliber Choice.

  1. #21
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    .300bo gets my vote for most versatile.
    Good performance from a short barrel, off the shelf subsonics for suppressed use or possible use indoors without hearing protection. And supersonics for good performance at 100 yards. Cheap .300bo runs about the same cost as cheap brass case 7.62x39, about 50 cents/rnd. Although right now SGAmmo has S&B brass case 7.62x39 for $8/box which is unusually cheap.

    9mm is another good option although you can also do the same with a handgun. Still effective and cheap to shoot at the range.

    I also shoot 7.62x39 out of a 10" AR and a Draco AK pistol. While the concussion is manageable with ear protection flash is another issue with most foreign steel case. Lots of fun on the range though. My 12" Draco can easily make foot long fireballs with no device. The ones that do manage flash well are pretty long and I can't put a 4" device or flash can on my 12" Draco, otherwise it's not doing anything my 16" WASR isn't. I've put three 7.62x39 AR carbines & pistols together and not broken a bolt but it is the weak link in the chain. I feel more confident running .300bo thru my ARs and 7.62x39 thru my AKs.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderson View Post
    .300bo gets my vote for most versatile.
    Good performance from a short barrel, off the shelf subsonics for suppressed use or possible use indoors without hearing protection. And supersonics for good performance at 100 yards.
    This^^

    For all around reliability, ballistics, and 'stopping power' in a super short platform, I don't think you can beat .300 blk.

    I have shorties in 5.56, 9mm, and .300 blk, and my go-to is definitely my 8" .300blk with Barnes 110 gr Vor-TX black tip. I keep a suppressor on mine

  3. #23
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    I love shooting my MPX pistol but you can't beat a 5.56 for power. 300 blackout if ammo cost isn't a consideration.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mig1nc View Post
    If I were to start over again, I'm liking what I have seen so far with the 9" 7.62*39 CZ Bren 2.

    Basically I would love to do a French GIGN clone build.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    That's pretty awesome - but I haven't seen any barrel swap kits available stateside for the Bren yet. Frustrating how many manufacturers advertise the modularity of their design and never make parts available.

    A Galil ACE pistol (8.3" 7.62x39) gives some pretty similar ergonomics and dimensions.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadAngler1 View Post
    You use the SBR or pistol that is 100% reliable, which you are comfortable using proficiently in a stressful situation. If you find your shot placement and proficiency superior when shooting 9 mm over other calibers, go with that.

    I can shoot my AR 9 mm faster and more accurate than my .45 ACP UMP conversion on the clock. The AR 9 has better ergonomics and it’s easier to mount a light. I would hate to be shot with it if it were loaded with Federal HSTs (which it eats just fine). Food for thought.

    .300 blackout is superior for a PDW in terms of terminal ballistics, but for most of us, 9 mm JHPs should do quite well unless your enemy has body armor.
    I just got a AR9 9mm 10.5 inch "pistol" with arm brace from Palmetto. What a great weapon. Attached Sig Romeo5 red dot. Ammo cheap enough to allow for lots of practice, little muzzle blast and fast follow ups. Feeds all bullet shapes as I have tried every reload I have ever made.
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165449802.html
    No SBR paperwork required.

  6. #26
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    Hard to beat pistol calibers out of shorties. As a PP noted, 'till you add a can, whatever advantage was gained in the short barrel is lost. (CZ seems to have a can that fits back over the barrel of its PCCs to address this problem; don't know if it is on the market, nor how well it works.)
    Kewl as a can may be (with 'secret agent' or 'hitman' written all over it ), for home defense, a pair of electronic muffs stashed with your go-to gun is cheaper and a lot less trouble...
    Moon

  7. #27
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    For me, the big problem with 300 BLK in a PDW is the lack of appropriate defensive ammunition: You can either pick stuff that will grossly under-penetrate or grossly over-penetrate. Just as there's good reason SiG made the Rattler in 300 BLK, there's equally good reason why the British PSD teams who requested SiG develop it wanted it in 5.56mm....

    6.8mm SPC is lacking in magazine selection, but at least projectiles that perform are available. But the lack of good magazines... maybe in an LWRC? But even then, for a PDW, I'd want access to 15-20-round magazines, as well as 25+ round magazines.

    9mm lacks the power, but at least good ammunition is available.

    5.56mm gets blasty in barrels under 11", but there is ammunition that performs in the shorter barreled guns.

    Ultimately, I'd have to take a 9mm in a really short-barreled gun (like an MP5K or MP5), a 7.62x39mm in a pretty short barreled gun (AKSU), or 5.56mm in a longer-short barrel (HK G36C, LWRC IC-PDW, 10.5" HK416, or 11.5"+ in a DI gun). (And yes, I'm aware that there's a lot of overlap in the barrel lengths of the three caliber and barrel lengths I specified.)

    300 BLK has the promise to replace most of these calibers in most of these barrel lengths, but the projectiles, as of 15 December 2018, as far as I am aware, simply aren't there, yet.
    Last edited by MountainRaven; 12-15-18 at 13:20.
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  8. #28
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    10.5 inch barrels and up, 5.56 (with the right ammo)
    Under 10.5 inch barrels, the .300 BO (with the right ammo)
    Last edited by Biggy; 12-21-18 at 12:53.

  9. #29
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    Re-reading this post, a PP mentioned the VZ-61. They are a ball to shoot, but would be much better with a buzz switch. But small they are!
    I understand the love for .300Blk, but ammo cost (and reloading complications) will make it a non-starter for most.
    Blast from 5.56 is an issue, and where to practice is another. Most indoor ranges won't permit 5.56, and outdoor ones don't like you shooting steel at practical defensive distances.
    Get something in pistol caliber, preferably in 9mm, with a short barrel and a stock/brace. It is more easily stashed or secured, cheap to feed for lots of practice, and plenty powerful with good ammo. You should be able to shoot it on about any range, and you'll shoot it better under stress than a handgun.
    If your home invaders are wearing body armor, you have pissed off someone way above your pay grade.
    Moon

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klingkong251 View Post
    Wanted opinions on "in your opinion" what the best caliber is and why for a compact PDW style weapon. I'm talking something like an SBR or AR pistol type weapon, not a handgun. Tell me your caliber of choice and why.
    I like the 5.56 out of an 11.5" barrel, particularly the Colt 6933. Hits out to 300 yards are not a problem. Don't let anyone talk you out of suppressing it, especially if a BRT micro port is used. The 5.56 out of an 11.5" barrel has good terminal ballistics inside "PDW" ranges even with FMJ. It's even more effective with better ammo.

    If a suppressor isn't going to be used, the BRT Covert Comp is an effective linear compensator. It does a good job of sending the concussion downrange and keeping the flash signature low.

    Don't hesitate to suppress a shorty. Yes, it adds length, but not much more than using an unsuppressed 14.5" upper and the 11.5" suppressed will be much quieter. Not quite hearing safe perhaps, but it will reduce damage to the ears significantly.

    The overall performance of an 11.5" 5.56 AR offers a good balance of range, terminal performance, size, reliability, recoil management and ammo selection. The 9mm or 300 BLK gives better terminal performance with shorter barrel length, but the shorter a PDW type AR gets, the narrower the niche it fills. The 11.5" 5.56 is tough to beat.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 12-21-18 at 01:02.
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