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Thread: Decorated Vietnam Veteran, POW Sentenced To 7+ Years For ‘Mistake’ Made Decades Ago

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    The defendant doesn't know if he bought a F/A or a S/A? Even though he was issued a F/A when in Service? What next he does not know it had an obliterated SN either?
    A lot of M14's, maybe most, were issued from the arms room with a selector lock in place. You had to drive a pin out to remove the selector lock and relace it with a selector switch. The selector switches were kept separate from the rifles, usually in a safe.

    So it is entirely possible that Alfred Pick 1) only carried an M14 with a selector lock in place so was not aware that all were capable of full auto; 2) and the M14 he illegally possessed had the selector lock in place - just the same as the one he carried - which was semi-auto and therefore he thought his was legal.

    Doubtful, but possible.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 10-18-18 at 23:53.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OH58D View Post
    For those in the AK collecting and building world, I would bet money there are more 922(r) violations than you could ever imagine, and would make criminals out of many thousands of otherwise law abiding Americans just because of US Made parts counts. In that world, it's done intentionally with a wink and nod, and you just don't discuss it openly.

    With the numbers of AK, AR and HK "pistols" or semi-auto PDW's out there, I would guess there are a large number of SBR violations by the installation of forward grips and folding stocks (not the arm brace). Back in early '90s I remember seeing and HK SP89 with a forward grip and side folding stock, and no tax stamp. Clearly an NFA violation, but the owner didn't seem to care nor did I.

    The jails haven't been built to house all of these yet to be discovered criminals.
    Remember when guys were standing outside recruiting offices to guard them from Islamic Militants? One of the shorts-wearing, t-shirt-clad, no-belt, Uncle Mike's nylon "holster", socks-with-sandals dudes had an extremely short-barreled AR pistol with a vertical foregrip on it. You reckon he went to prison? Or even got a visit from the BAT(FE)men? His photograph with his (probably) unregistered AOW was in the news from coast-to-coast.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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  3. #43
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    Need a LOT more information on this one, for example why wasn't the "dealer" arrested for selling an unregistered machine gun if that is what actually happened.

    Also did this guy "knowingly" buy an unregistered machine gun? Might be naive but generally you assume everything sold at a gun show is legal. Was a 4473 submitted and approved? If yes, then what is the issue, if no then why not?

    Being a "vet" hardly makes anyone a gun expert. I've met plenty of guys who told me they remember having "Bushmaster" M-16s in nam and will swear they are positive because it had the same snake on it. I've stopped trying to even correct them.

    If this guy knowingly bought a shady M14 then it finally came home to bite him on the ass. Does he deserve 7 years? Did they take his service into account during sentencing? Is it smart to smoke weed and be a gun owner? Well let's just say I've seen people get jammed up worse for less.

    If it was just going to be a wall hanger, he'd have been wise to invest in an M1A, but given the "weed plus guns" issue he might still be in deep doo doo.

    Either way, his life was hard and it just got harder.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    What is a rewelded semi that was legal then illegal?

    If the gun was non-functional (and thus not a gun at all), why would he plead guilty? Who wouldn't his attorney be point out it was a non-functional gun? Instead they are admitting it was a F/A but it was a "single" mistake 40 years ago?
    MKS did some receivers years ago (rewelds) that were ultimately ruled illegal by ATF and they actually got the sales lists from MKS and went to people's houses on the list to confiscate them.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Need a LOT more information on this one, for example why wasn't the "dealer" arrested for selling an unregistered machine gun if that is what actually happened.

    Also did this guy "knowingly" buy an unregistered machine gun? Might be naive but generally you assume everything sold at a gun show is legal. Was a 4473 submitted and approved? If yes, then what is the issue, if no then why not?

    Being a "vet" hardly makes anyone a gun expert. I've met plenty of guys who told me they remember having "Bushmaster" M-16s in nam and will swear they are positive because it had the same snake on it. I've stopped trying to even correct them.

    If this guy knowingly bought a shady M14 then it finally came home to bite him on the ass. Does he deserve 7 years? Did they take his service into account during sentencing? Is it smart to smoke weed and be a gun owner? Well let's just say I've seen people get jammed up worse for less.

    If it was just going to be a wall hanger, he'd have been wise to invest in an M1A, but given the "weed plus guns" issue he might still be in deep doo doo.

    Either way, his life was hard and it just got harder.
    My understanding is that the search was for the M14, not the weed. i.e. the weed was incidental to the search. If that is the case I'd throw out the weed charge simply because the 4th Amendment states:


    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    It does NOT authorize a fishing expedition for anything, only what is on the warrant. Yeah, I know it's done all the time but it isn't right.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Legit question. Serial number ground off makes an eyebrow raise but it could be what you suggest.

    To the guy who was all "law and order uber alles" and mentioned it was illegal, have to obey the law, etc. True dat. However…..what about some future time when the libtards have their way and a new AWB is put into place? Register, surrender, or be felon. What then? Still feel the same way? Yeah, the 1934 NFA was long in effect when this guy supposedly bought this weapon, but how about if you were made into a criminal with the wave of a pen?
    Exactly. The only issue I have with any of it was the removed serial number which *usually* indicates a firearm has been stolen. Zulu Foxtrot Golf that it was full auto. The "he committed a crime knowingly every day he owned it" is laughable. How many of these people followed the 94 AWB to the letter?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five_Point_Five_Six View Post
    Exactly. The only issue I have with any of it was the removed serial number which *usually* indicates a firearm has been stolen. Zulu Foxtrot Golf that it was full auto. The "he committed a crime knowingly every day he owned it" is laughable. How many of these people followed the 94 AWB to the letter?
    I bet most do. If he knew about the illegality of the weapon and he probably did due to the "SCRATCHED OUT SERIAL NUMBER" (duh). He continued to break the law every day he kept it..and I doubt if he is laughing right now.

  8. #48
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    Stolen, really this is an issue with many of you? If a few more of the 750,000 M14's that Clinton had fed into Capt. Crunch had made it out the back door I wouldn't be crying crocodile tears. IIRC Clinton was paying a contractor $3.86 or so to chop up each M1 Garand and M14 until a class action lawsuit stopped the destruction of M1 Garands.

    Your tax dollars at work

    The demil process kicked into high gear after the August 1993 start-up. In a March 1994 interview, spokesman Larry Wilson said that "Captain Crunch" had ground up 307,000 firearms at a cost of a little more than $1,000,000.

    Wilson gave a break-down of the guns destroyed as of March 1994 as follows: .45 caliber automatic pistols (110,000), M-14 rifles (50,000), M1 carbines (45,000), M1903A3 drill rifles (40,000), M1 Garands (30,000), M3 .45 "grease guns" (20,000), M1903 Springfields (6,000), and M12 .22 caliber target rifles (6,000). Wilson calculated it had cost $3.52 to destroy each weapon and the Material Command was destroying 3,000 guns per day.

    ...

    Employees stated that the condition of the weapons ranged from "unserviceable" to "brand new" unissued condition. They further stated that many were wrapped in cosmoline and the wrapping had to be stripped off for the demil process to begin.

    It was told to the author that in March 1994 some 6,000 M1D sniper rifles and approximately 500 M1C sniper rifles were demilled at the Depot. These historical guns were worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was also related that some Winchester "Educational Contract" M1 Garand rifles were destroyed in the demil.

    Other weapons destroyed in the Anniston demil include an entire crate of Model 92 rifles. Unissued International Harvester M1 Garands were being stripped and the receivers and barrels destroyed. Crates of M5A1 bayonets and M1917 Enfield bayonets were destroyed. Priceless artifacts have gone into the hopper of "Captain Crunch".

    One individual involved in the demil process advised the author that he personally broke down three crates of M-14 rifles in late February 1995 to ship the parts to the DCM for resale. He further advised that the demil process was still ongoing with M-1 carbines, M-14's, .45 automatics, and .38 Colt revolvers being destroyed. He advised that a class-action lawsuit had been filed to halt destruction of the M-1 Garands and only the destruction of M1 Garands had been terminated pending the outcome of the suit.
    Last edited by mack7.62; 10-19-18 at 09:48.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    A lot of M14's, maybe most, were issued from the arms room with a selector lock in place. You had to drive a pin out to remove the selector lock and relace it with a selector switch. The selector switches were kept separate from the rifles, usually in a safe.

    So it is entirely possible that Alfred Pick 1) only carried an M14 with a selector lock in place so was not aware that all were capable of full auto; 2) and the M14 he illegally possessed had the selector lock in place - just the same as the one he carried - which was semi-auto and therefore he thought his was legal.

    Doubtful, but possible.
    I had friends in the late 70s early 80s issued CMP m14s setup exactly that way.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    A lot of M14's, maybe most, were issued from the arms room with a selector lock in place. You had to drive a pin out to remove the selector lock and relace it with a selector switch. The selector switches were kept separate from the rifles, usually in a safe.

    So it is entirely possible that Alfred Pick 1) only carried an M14 with a selector lock in place so was not aware that all were capable of full auto; 2) and the M14 he illegally possessed had the selector lock in place - just the same as the one he carried - which was semi-auto and therefore he thought his was legal.

    Doubtful, but possible.
    Was it SOP to issue M14s to soldiers with SNs ground off?

    I will go with Occam's Razor.
    Last edited by Renegade; 10-19-18 at 10:17.

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