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Thread: Bolt under cartridge FTF/Malf

  1. #1
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    Bolt under cartridge FTF/Malf

    So, a friend sent me a photo of his workmate's M&P with a cartridge stuck about where the gas return tube should be. I know nothing about the malf except what you see in the photo. According to the owner, the bolt will not move forward or backward, and, of course, the part of the BCG is in the receiver extension, making normal disassembly difficult.

    Questions:

    How did that happen?

    What do you suggest as remedial action?

    Cartridge over bolt.jpg
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  2. #2
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    Is it an empty case, or a live round in there? Looks like a live round in the pic.

    My guess is that it was a double feed, and also that the BCG will move rearward, just not as easily as your friend is accustomed to it moving. It may require mortaring the buttstock while pulling the charging handle. Once the mag is out, pull the charging handle rearward, and lock the bolt to the rear. It may not feel like the charging handle went far enough back if the cartridge is between the charging handle & BCG. The next step is to get the charging handle forward, which may require a smack if there is charging handle impingment. The cartridge should be easily removed then.
    Last edited by LMT Shooter; 10-22-18 at 23:44.

  3. #3
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    If you do mortar it, remember to collapse the stock all the way down to avoid damage.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    I think that manuals used to indicate clearing that type of malfunction by mortaring, but while activating the bolt hold open, not pulling the charging handle only. Mag removed of course.

    The using a mag to pull the bolt back sounds way better.

    Is the slapping the charging handle forward in the process going on the presumption that the initial attempt at getting everything back up and running will have jammed the case in the charging handle clearance hole?
    Last edited by jsbhike; 10-23-18 at 08:52.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano5326 View Post
    rare malfunction

    do not "mortar" the butt stock while pulling handle to rear will bend case into a stuck mess you may not get apart

    drop the mag

    1) take edge of magazine and put pressure pulling the bolt group back
    2) slap charging handle forward
    3) round hopefully drops out mag-well, may need finger assist
    This.

    If a mag doesn’t work any sturdy tool pushing on the bolt face will do.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMT Shooter View Post
    Is it an empty case, or a live round in there? Looks like a live round in the pic.
    Yeah, that's a live round.

    I have sent your suggestions on to the various parties. We shall see. (The owner was going to take it to a gunsmith, but he may change his mind in light of this.)
    'That whole effort was held together by sweat, shame, and a tiny bit of pride.' -- Son of Commander Paisley

  7. #7
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    Bolt under cartridge FTF/Malf

    It appears to be a brass over bolt malfunction. Have your buddy go on YouTube and search for a video called Mike Pannone AR Malfunction Clearance. He has a very simple way to clear one of these malfunctions that will immediately have you questioning why no one ever taught you this before. Basically, drop the mag, brace the muzzle on the deck and the buttstock on your chest, pull the charging handle back as far as it will go and use the bolt lock (or your fingers if the bolt lock can’t engage) to hold the BCG in place while you push the charging handle forward. With the BCG held in place, the round will be able to drop free. Once you see the video it’s a lot more clear than my explanation.
    Last edited by ruckusjuice; 10-23-18 at 10:30.

  8. #8
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    Or another trick, muzzle down as stated above, rip the mag out, use something thin like the edge of a metal mag or letterman to pull the BCG back through the ejection port..Push charging handle forward and let gravity be your friend.

  9. #9
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    I will be honest...

    In my time here at M4C, at the public Ranges, and even time with some post Mil guys, I have never heard of this malfunction or have seen it. I will be researching, practicing, and mentally preparing.

    Learn something new every day with you fine bunch'o folks.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeruMew View Post
    I will be honest...

    In my time here at M4C, at the public Ranges, and even time with some post Mil guys, I have never heard of this malfunction or have seen it. I will be researching, practicing, and mentally preparing.

    Learn something new every day with you fine bunch'o folks.
    Its not unheard of in ragged M16’s with crummy mags. I haven’t seen this type of malf in a while, though.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

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