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Thread: Would you feel under-gunned using Federal 9BPLE?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    My experience with GSW's is that placement trumps penetration, expansion, or any other matrices of performance, within reason.

    My experience with GSWs is that penetration is utterly necessary. Expansion is hit or miss when bullets hit people.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    My experience with GSWs is that penetration is utterly necessary. Expansion is hit or miss when bullets hit people.
    "Within reason". Within reason, to me, means it reaches a vital organ. Glaser slug that hits the sternum dead-on? Bad juju. Do I recommend them? No. But I was talking about GSW's, not carry recommendations or what I'd feel comfortable with. I've seen plenty of through-through that was worthless. I think ultimately it must be accepted that pistols don't stop people very rapidly unless they hit the CNS or core a major vessel. This is why I like rifles and shotguns. They actually tear stuff up vs. poking holes. Unless you hit the structures mentioned, you're just counting on the other person to freak out and give up, basically. Since that's rational, okay, but rational people don't typically do a bunch of meth and attack others, so maybe not ok.

    That brings me full circle. All the penetration in the world is worthless if you just tap them high left or right chest. You're going to get a lung, and maybe/maybe not the subclavian. Those kinds of wounds aren't very effective in the short term. Sure, long term they will bleed out over the next half hour or who knows how long, but I'm not worried about that.

    So my advice is to load up when you can put COM or in the CNS reliably, on demand. If that round happens to get 10" in FBI gel but you and your pistol shoot it faster and more accurately than anything else, whatever. I'd still pick it.

  3. #23
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    Shot placement is vital. However, I think many gun owners and toters use "shot placement" as some sort of trump card and excuse to use inferior product. Shots through barriers, at irregular angles, and in limited exposures are a reality. Modern bullets loaded with the least amount of recoil that achieves terminal ballistic standards should be the goal. And knowing what we know about the (in)frequency at which people train, compete, and meaningfully test themselves, I also wonder how many who offer "shot placement" can stand and deliver that placement cold on demand.

    The above isn't directed at anyone here in particular, just an observation of the argument.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Shot placement is vital. However, I think many gun owners and toters use "shot placement" as some sort of trump card and excuse to use inferior product. Shots through barriers, at irregular angles, and in limited exposures are a reality. Modern bullets loaded with the least amount of recoil that achieves terminal ballistic standards should be the goal. And knowing what we know about the (in)frequency at which people train, compete, and meaningfully test themselves, I also wonder how many who offer "shot placement" can stand and deliver that placement cold on demand.

    The above isn't directed at anyone here in particular, just an observation of the argument.
    I agree with everything you've said. I'm just saying that I've seen people shot to shit with GREAT! ammunition. The one that dropped them? A funky hit in the lower abdomen that hit the CNS and the legs stopped working. Their top half was still fighting all the way to the intubation.

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