P320 M17 review on American Rifleman website

[Tokarev]

I took delivery of 250 in 2015 and 200 in 2016. Then in Dec 2017 Sig replaced all 450 of those and sent us 200 more in Jan 2018. I'm the Firearms Intake Officer and have function tested all 650 at least once. I have field striped the guns in DC where I work and lubed everyone of them to my standard for the 43 transition classes we have run so far. I think the redesigned giuns are nicer than the originals. My first gun had over 4000 rounds through it. I took it to FIRTP last summer before I switched it out in December. I never had an issue with my first gun. My second gun I have now went with me through a Mid-South class at Quantico in the Spring. I was the only Sig in the class of Glocks and everyone wanted to try my gun.

I will say I prefer the newer trigger shape to the older version. Other than that the guns shoot about the same for me. Having hundreds of guns to compare I see that different people assemble them. Some guns have white grease on some contact points. Some guns have no white grease on them at all. As for the triggers they are all similar. I can tell a few have a crisper break than others but my uncalibrated trigger finger has them pretty similar. I can tell the difference between a gun that is bone dry to one that is lubed up.

As for accuracy, we went from the P2000 LEM in 40 to the P320 carry in 9mm so universally the officers seem to prefer the Sig. Our course of fire is so easy I really don't see a difference in scores but the groups are definitely tighter.

We haven't had any issues with the new guns. All 450 of the old guns were removed from service in June so everyone with a Sig has the new model. We haven't has any of the new guns break. We did have an officer incorrectly disassemble his pistol take down lever (which is not authorized) and booger up the O ring.

The number one issue we had was the magazines. Our indoor range in DC has a concrete floor. The first two versions of mags we tried had the base plates come apart when being dropped. Only with people over 6 feet tall though. The newest mags with the updated guns have now gone through two qual session and we haven't had one move yet.

In the end we were definitely a beta tester. I knew it when the Pistol Eval Committee picked the Sig. Since Sig replaced every gun I can't complain. I will say the logistics of getting 450 guns off the street from DC, NY, CA and GA in 6 months was kind of a pain. David

It sounds like your agency has probably as much experience with the 320 as anyone other than maybe Texas DPS and, now of course, the Army.

It also sounds like the guns have been working well even with all the "recall" drama. Are you aware of any other problems? Any oddball broken parts or odd cases of spring fatigue not counting the user-induced O ring?

What is your duty load? +P or standard pressure? Do you use the same stuff for quals and practice?

[dwhitehorne]

How long were those 450 officers in the field with the defective, fires-if-dropped, guns?

Well after all the videos started coming out in August 2017 we had replacement guns in 120 days. It took me about 2 months to get everyone swapped out and qualified where a work. David

[dwhitehorne]

We had a class or two of guns down at FLETC choke on their frangible ammo in 2016. Some brand called ICC that in 45 years of shooting have never heard of. I didn't blame that on the guns because they switched over to lead ammo from known manufactures and didn't have anymore problems. The rest of the Force started with 147 grain Winchester Ranger bonded. We then switched to Speer G2. All off the FBI contracts. We generally always run duty ammo but for the transition course we started with Federal 90 grain frangible I have left over. I then ordered some Speer 100 grain +P for 2016. This past year the FBI contract had some Winchester 147 grain FMJE and we have been running that.

Like said before we only had major issues with the old mags. The 2015 guns had very short mag springs and they crapped out after a year. Many running our issued TLR-1 light were having issues with the last round in the mag. The latest mags with the new guns have been fine this year. We have only had the one new gun go down and I blame it on operator error. From the older guns we had an o ring at FLETC break. I know one gun in California had extraction issues. We had one officer during on handed drills slam her gun on the concrete with the slide locked to the rear and bent the right side slide stop. The guns at FLETC that were having extraction issues with the ICC ammo Sig sent us all new extractors and the now longer extractor pin. After 2016 all guns had the longer pin. We also had a handful of guns have the tritium vial go out.

Currently my personal pet peeve is the Ford interceptors seatbelts sure wear on the stippling on the grip. It is only a handful of officers thought so I don't know what the are doing to wear of the grips so bad. With only about 10 to 11 months of service on the replacement guns I don't have any major issues. Once DHS/INS/CBP or whoever gets thousands of guns in daily use will be know what may crop up. David

[Tokarev]

Once DHS/INS/CBP or whoever gets thousands of guns in daily use will be know what may crop up.

CBP hasn't chosen a new pistol yet. The process is underway now. If it stays on time the gun should be announced in Spring 2019 with the ammo contract to follow thereafter.

ICE selected the 320 probably close to two years ago but I don't think they have been fielded in large numbers. Not sure if there are funding issues or what.



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[dwhitehorne]

CBP hasn't chosen a new pistol yet. The process is underway now. If it stays on time the gun should be announced in Spring 2019 with the ammo contract to follow thereafter.

ICE selected the 320 probably close to two years ago but I don't think they have been fielded in large numbers. Not sure if there are funding issues or what.



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Yes I know. I've spoken with multiple DHS entities and some FLECT people who were probably DHS in the past 2 years. It's bad enough in the DOI. I can keep all of those acronyms straight. David

[Tokarev]

[Gödel]

Well after all the videos started coming out in August 2017 we had replacement guns in 120 days. It took me about 2 months to get everyone swapped out and qualified where a work. David

Sorry, I missed your response.

The guns weren't drop safe before the videos, so how long in total did your officers have dangerous weapons in the field from issue to replacement?

[Tokarev]

Sorry, I missed your response.

The guns weren't drop safe before the videos, so how long in total did your officers have dangerous weapons in the field from issue to replacement?

How long were 1911s unsafe before Colt and others either added a firing pin block or lightened the firing pin?

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[Gödel]

How long were 1911s unsafe before Colt and others either added a firing pin block or lightened the firing pin?

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Did Colt and every other manufacturer safetyless inertial firing pin guns issue a recall and modify every pistol without a firing pin block?

Nope. They are still made today and distributed today.


It is one thing to have a gun possibly fire muzzle down, quite another for it to fire at 45° muzzle up. One officer has already been shot by a P320 and a consumer narrowly avoided it - both months before the videos. They were very unsafe guns.

[Tokarev]

It is one thing to have a gun possibly fire muzzle down, quite another for it to fire at 45° muzzle up. One officer has already been shot by a P320 and a consumer narrowly avoided it - both months before the videos. They were very unsafe guns.

What's your point? SIG has addressed the drop issue by swapping out department guns for new. Granted it seems to have taken awhile to admit there was a problem but once the Omaha Outdoors video broke SIG was quick to respond.

Could the "upgrade" have been handled better on the civilian side? Probably. I would have made it a recall and not a voluntary upgrade. Doesn't matter if the original gun passes a portion of the SAAMI drop test or not I would have pulled the guns back in and retrofitted all of them.

With that said, the few posts and threads I've seen relating to the upgrade process make it sound like the whole process has gone well. Guns are getting turned around in short order and most users like the new trigger as much, or more, than the original.


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