12 Year Old Killed While Trick-or-Treating

[ZDL]

You brought up a good point. This isn't good press. IMHO, the liberal media is going to rally the uneducated masses and attempt to further their illogical agenda.

I'm just asking, how do we get off this defensive position we constantly find ourselves in?

Ah sorry. My reading comprehension is on "E" tonight.

As far as getting off the defensive position: I don't think we can afford to. That being said, the complicated dynamic found in something like the Keller case, I feel, will eventually work against us. So by being defensive in that particular case, in my opinion, will cost us later.

(Not attempting to derail this thread into another heller discussion!)

I don't have any answers. Wish I did.

[czydj]

Ah sorry. My reading comprehension is on "E" tonight.

As far as getting off the defensive position: I don't think we can afford to.

Understood! No worries, mate!


I'm just asking, how do we get off the defensive and get on the offensive? Don't we really need to find a way to stress personal responsibility and getting out of the nanny-state mentality too many have unknowingly fallen into?

[ZDL]

Understood! No worries, mate!


I'm just asking, how do we get off the defensive and get on the offensive? Don't we really need to find a way to stress personal responsibility and getting out of the nanny-state mentality too many have unknowingly fallen into?

LOL When you figure that out, shoot one of those flying pigs in the air.

[SW-Shooter]

Call me paranoid but this is the exact reason my kids don't go T or T'ing. Too many sick ****s in the world anymore, seems to me that they care less and less anymore about doing shit like this.

[murphy j]

Don't we really need to find a way to stress personal responsibility and getting out of the nanny-state mentality too many have unknowingly fallen into?

That's the crux of it right there. No one wants to hold anyone personally accountable for their actions anymore. It seems like there are too many apologists that want lay a persons actions off as someone elses fault or ignore the facts at hand. This guy didn't think before he acted and now an innocent child is dead. He should be held accountable and I hope he is. But, the anti-gunners will look at this and blame the gun, not the man.

[Gutshot John]

Well there's no doubt that the suspect will be held personally accountable.

We get off the defensive by stating the facts of the case:

1. Convicted felon
2. Convicted felon illegally possessing a firearm.
3. Convicted felon illegally possessing a firearm to protect his illegal drugs.
4. Convicted felon illegally possessing a firearm to protect his illegal drugs murders an innocent child.
5. Convicted felon illegally possessing a firearm to protect his illegal drugs murders an innocent child while his accomplice tries to destroy evidence of his crime.

All of this ignores that despite myriad laws to prevent the above, the criminal still managed to procure an illegal weapon.

Seriously this is a no-brainer, please let the AWB folks use this to state their case. Honestly though I don't think we can get that lucky as it demonstrably proves the stupidity of their position.

[Safetyhit]

Seriously this is a no-brainer, please let the AWB folks use this to state their case. Honestly though I don't think we can get that lucky as it demonstrably proves the stupidity of their position.

To the thinking man, this would seem sound. And, it is sound based on the applicable facts.

However to the non-thinking, reactive anti-gunner, it is just another example of what these horrible weapons can do and why they should not exist in society. They will find some way to spin it for us.

The more I read about the story, and specifically the boy, the more hate I feel for this bastard that committed the atrocity.

[Gutshot John]

However to the non-thinking, reactive anti-gunner, it is just another example of what these horrible weapons can do and why they should not exist in society. They will find some way to spin it for us.

Res Ipsa Loquitur. It can't be spun, the established facts speak for themselves. They might TRY to spin it, but the rabid anti-gunner doesn't need another reason to hate us and no amount of facts will ever change their minds. So who cares what they think? You've got no control over that.

Even still anti-gunners aren't stupid, they pick their battles and they'll find a better case than this one.

I haven't heard one peep of protest from anyone on the media or net have you?

[SwatDawg15]

Yea all they are going to key on is "assualt weapon" even though if it had been most handguns, shotguns, ect.. the effect would have been the same. Thats always my worst fear when we do raids, is getting shot through walls, doors, ect. You can't react to what you cant see, and alot of leo's have fell victim to this. Bad thing is there ant much that can be done.... intel is skepitcal at best, dynamic entry's work if everything goes as planed and the team is quick enough. Stealth is hardly non-used around here because 99% of the dopers have video cams set up.. (we removed two from houses last week). We have been lucky thus far, and this is in our lovely country.

I cant imagine what the Soldiers go threw doing urban raids on homes that more than likely have fully auto AK47's waiting for them. I guess the short answer is to train, train, and train... and never give up. Maybe just one of the low-life dopers we take down will be one less that will kill a child asking for freakin candy.

Sorry for the long vent.

[Safetyhit]

I haven't heard one peep of protest from anyone on the media or net have you?

Not yet, but it's only been 4 days. Someone will reference it publicly at some point down the line, and some will agree with their sentiment. Just another horrible incident with an "assault weapon", also one that could possibly have been avoided if they were banned. We lawful owners just don't need any more of it out there, especially with an anti-gun democrat seemingly about to get into the White House.


You know I agree with you here, and no I don't think the matter will generate any more than emotional, idealistic proposals. The law did all they could to keep that man away from weapons of any sort, he went way around the system to do what he did. You and I should not be held responsible for that, of course.