PRO-TIP:
When the cops show up, do not have a gun in your hand.
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Senior Member
PRO-TIP:
When the cops show up, do not have a gun in your hand.
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As has been mentioned in past police f**k-ups, it's time to ramp up holding said officer(s) to CRIMINAL charges. Screw the civil liability shit, $$$ ain't gonna bring back a life. Once prison is a likely outcome then things will change.
This case stinks to high heaven......
11C2P '83-'87
Airborne Infantry
F**k China!
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Hmac
This is the most important takeaway for citizens that carry. It is an unfortunate circumstance.
To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. --Theodore Roosevelt--
Senior Member
It's been said here before but unfortunately the police believe gun=bad guy. Their only solution is to shoot and since there is a gun there is no accountability for the officer. If, as an armed citizen, you have to engage a bad guy then shoot until the threat is stopped or runs off and then re- holster quickly. If you have a gun in your hand when the police arrive you are a dead man.
Question for a current police officer - does anyone still train on the FATS simulator? We had to go through it a couple of times a year and there were tons of shoot/no shoot scenarios when encountering armed, plainclothes people.
Philippians 2:10-11
To argue with a person who renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. ~ Thomas Paine
“The greatest conspiracy theory is the notion that your government cares about you”- unknown.
Senior Member
Why wouldn't anyone apply the proper amount of firepower to end such a situation permanently to start with?
Last I checked "shoot to ground" was the prevalent training in many/most legit classes.
If someone is already shooting the place up there's no reason to give them a freebie...
Or at least, that's my humble opinion.
Last edited by Jellybean; 11-18-18 at 20:55.
"Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."
"...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop
"The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment
Senior Member
Sage advice.
Train 2 Win
Member
Lots of folks advocating for not having a gun in hand when the cops arrive. Unless I misread the article linked in the first post, the shooter was alive. I wouldn't be comfortable putting my weapon away with a living shooter present & unrestrained. And honestly, how will someone know exactly when the cops will show up in all cases? My instincts make me want to believe that these solutions are imperfect, and that like many situations, there is no perfect answer. LE needs to be training to recognize that not every person with a gun is a threat.
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The reality is you will see fewer CCW types coming to anyone's aid. I used to always be certain that if I saw a cop get shot, I'm going in and covering / helping until other officers arrived. Now I'm less certain, the bar has been lowered to the benefit of no one.
It's quickly becoming a matter of take care of me and mine, and honestly that sucks. If I knew the risk was "maybe save a cop or some 100% innocent who deserves to be helped but maybe get shot by bad guy" I would probably still be up for it, but if the risk is "maybe save a cop or some 100% innocent who deserves to be helped but maybe get shot by a cop", well that changes lots of things. Seems to happen too frequently to be an anomaly.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
كافر
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Not everyone knows that and most have a "shoot to stop" mindset and with the fact that almost everything is on camera these days anchor shots don't look like a defensive shoot.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
كافر
Senior Member
The second situation is the reason for my original question/comment. The first comment is true, you shoot until the threat is no longer a threat, but frankly, if the guy is still breathing, he is a threat. If he has a ballistic vest on, those 9mm rounds from a 3-4 inch barrel might not be as damaging as initially indicated. Sure, kick his gun away- does he have a explosive vest on? Does he have a back-up gun?
We are talking about 1 in a million, chance of this happening to any CCW in any year.
I guess what I'm saying is that in an AS situation, a CCWer should be held to a different and much looser standard than a LEO or a security guard- or even a CCWer in a normal situation. Acknowledging that holding a gun on an injuried AS puts the CCWer in danger, use of a level of force beyond threat mitigation to a looser standard of danger elimination. Not for every CCW event like a hold-up, just in circumstances like AS where there could be more than one shooter, suicide vests, and responding officers.
ETA: Aug was typing while I was slowing working on mine, but I think we are the same track. I was just trying to avoid the use of the word "anchor". But yes, in an AS situation; Anchors away, baby- but to what legal jeopardy?
Last edited by FromMyColdDeadHand; 11-19-18 at 01:26.
The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.
It's that simple.
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