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Thread: The "Best" All-Around Optic for your AR?

  1. #31
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    These were my rules based on my experiences in how I decided to set up my guns and optics.

    If the guns purpose was home defense only. Rds only.

    If the guns purpose was 0 to 200 yds or so and wind will have minimal impact on round fired, then rds and magnifier with flip to side and qd functions. Minimal hold overs needed and reticle not required to adjust for wind of elevation.

    If the guns purpose is a patrol rifle and general do everything gun 0 to 400 it gets a sfp 1-6 in a high mount. Some wind drift and more magnification for target identification. Reticle desired for accurate hold over distances past 300 and easier to account for wind drift holds.

    If you are capable of 600 yds shots with the above rifle ^^^^ then I would suggest a ffp 1-8, 2-10, 3-18 ect... for all the same reasons above. Generally on these rifles I run offset sights of some kind.

    The only scope that I own or have used that can go from an 8in 300 blackout to a 16in 308 and everything in between is my NF atacr 1-8. It is my opinion that that scope is the best lpvo on the market and general purpose use if you cant further refine your role criteria.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Furbyballer; 12-10-18 at 07:27.

  2. #32
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    Target location and ID: small binoculars or LRF (7X - 8X)
    Anything past 350 - 400 yards: bolt action rifle, higher top end magnification (15X min), caliber not 223.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    Target location and ID: small binoculars or LRF (7X - 8X)
    Anything past 350 - 400 yards: bolt action rifle, higher top end magnification (15X min), caliber not 223.
    An AR is plenty capable at these ranges, especially with a LPVO.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corse View Post
    An AR is plenty capable at these ranges, especially with a LPVO.
    If we're talking beyond 400 yards, 223 out of an AR is outclassed in external and terminal ballistics by modern 308 Win loads as well as 6.5 Creedmoor (which is no longer a boutique cartridge). And I have tons of experience sending 223 out to 600.

    If an AR with an LPVO is all you have, definitely push it. But there are better choices beyond certain parameters.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    If we're talking beyond 400 yards, 223 out of an AR is outclassed in external and terminal ballistics by modern 308 Win loads...
    Agreed, and especially out of a higher-end bolt gun. I assembled a GAP Crusader clone (trued Rem action, Bartlein 5R 23-inch barrel, McMillan A5 with Badger bottom metal), the only difference is I went with a 1:10 twist. It will bug-hole Fusion 180 grain bonded JSP-BT and as you might imagine, hits a wee bit harder than any .223 load.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    If we're talking beyond 400 yards, 223 out of an AR is outclassed in external and terminal ballistics by modern 308 Win loads as well as 6.5 Creedmoor (which is no longer a boutique cartridge). And I have tons of experience sending 223 out to 600.

    If an AR with an LPVO is all you have, definitely push it. But there are better choices beyond certain parameters.
    But which is better 0-50yrd, or 100? The LPVO gives it a good envelope

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corse View Post
    But which is better 0-50yrd, or 100? The LPVO gives it a good envelope
    I don't think we're in disagreement. If all I have at the moment is an AR and I HAVE to engage someone 500+ yards away, I know I can do it. But if I can choose the weapon for that same engagement, an AR in 223 will not be it.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    Not sure which LPVOs you've used to declare that your eye must always be exactly in the same spot every time. Certainly you haven't used the ones I've owned, with their very large and forgiving exit pupil and generous eye relief (the correct terms instead of the lame "eyebox")

    On top of that, who cares if your face isn't in the same exact spot on the stock at CQB distances? POI changes due to parallax error, while real, are inconsequential when shooting at a person 5 - 10 yards away.

    As for speed, my shot timer begs to differ.

    I'd also like to address the need for magnification with an analogy. I've never needed a handgun to fight someone in the 52 years I've been alive, but I still hump one.
    Explanation, and admission... Explanation first.


    I'm not talking about parrallax when I am complaining about the eyebox, I'm talking about the fact that any LPVO is a scope... It has the very same single most PITA problem that all scopes have, scope shadow. If you in a position where your body is twisted, (you're laying down in an awkward position behind cover, or reaching around or over cover) or if you were just rushed to get that stock weld, you have to work that much harder to get your eye lined up with the scope. Anybody who has ever shot a scope has had that issue where their face was a little off, and there was a big black shadow on one side or the other of the scope... A RDS doesn't have this. You can look through it an any angle, through the very edge of the optic, and there is no shadow, and the dot is visible, clear, and in focus. It just gives you that extra little bit of speed because it is more forgiving.

    Don't preach training... stuff goes wrong when bad things happen...

    Admission...

    BUT... it depends on your use. I think where I got off track was here. The RDS is a specialize tool, just as is the average rifle scope. The LPVO is that "all around use" compromise that fits the bill if you had to only have one rifle. "All around use".

    My only gun with a RDS is my SBR/pistol (2 lowers, one upper) but it's a dedicated close in gun that I'd not want to engage at distance with. My other AR has a magnified scope. For me, the RDS IS an "all around use" sight, because I never shoot anything at distance in my area. I'm just saying that a RDS is NOT obsolete, it's just a tool for a specific use. I may have recommended it for the wrong use, (all around) but they are a good option, if you need a close in sight.

    Don't think I don't like the LPVO, I do. I just haven't had the use for one that often... yet. My current build WILL have one, (probably the Razor) but that's a long way off. I've nothing but a lower (Aero) and the barrel (14" BA Hanson) as of yet...




    Oh, and the hand gun thing... Magnification doesn't matter in daily carry. People carry a handgun because it's convenient. At least I do. I'd carry my a rifle, but it's a PITA, people would freak, and cops would follow me everywhere.
    You know what I like best about most people?

    Their dogs.

  9. #39
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    Let's not forget that one aspect of what makes a good all-around optic is how much of a learning curve it requires. If you have lots of time to invest in learning to shoot at different distances and magnifications, then an LPVO may be exactly what the doctor ordered. On the other hand, if you live a life where you are really too busy to do much shooting, and don't anticipate having to engage a target beyond 300 yards, then an RDS may be ideal.

    I have found that RDS sights can be learned with little to no training other than the practice required to pick up targets quickly.

    Optics with magnification on the other hand require an investment in time to get good with.

  10. #40
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    EOTech.

    Everything else is a meme.

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