The "Best" All-Around Optic for your AR?

[shadow93]

Personally, the only optic under the Razor I would go with would be the Steiner P4xi. It was the optic I started with to make sure LPVOs worked for me and its is an amazing optic for the price. With $1000 budget I'd give it until after shot and pick up one of the used Razor's that people will start to move for the newest latest and greatest or I would save up a little bit more after and buy the Razor before I went with the PST line.

Edit. The glass may be comparable on the PST Line (haven't used it to tell you) but what you are giving up to get that lower cost is going to be durability.

[pointblank4445]

I live in a world/profession where 9/10 I need magnification. More often than not fixed 3.5-4x sits right in the middle of too much and not enough for most given tasks. Anything more than 1.5x is going to require an alternative sighting method for closer engagement...and that makes things pricey and/or complicated.

I'm in a complete minority, but I'm going to say one of the newer gen S&B 8x Short Dots (and yes I've used them ALL and most of them in a professional capacity...not just a fanboy talking theoretically)
Most who don't use Aimpoint/RDS style flash dot tech don't cut it for me in that respect. In order of "if I could have only one":

1.5-8x26mm Short Dot
Pro's
- call it 7.5 to 750y capable
- legit PMII grade no BS turrets for LR use
- Large eye box and decent relief
- Good 'ol Flash Dot tech
- Simple but effective reticle design useful in whole magnification range (p3 mildot)
- fair light transmission
- Not completely dependent upon electronics to make reticle visible/useful (though it is helpful at 1.5x)
- FFP to scale when dialed lower if wider FOV is needed

Con's
- very large
- flash dot too big at 8x
- 1.5x not perfectly ideal for CQB...but still not impossible to use (depends on intended use)


1-8x24mm CC Short Dot
Pro's
- 0 to 600y capable
- 7y parallax "CC" setting second only to true red dot for LPVO CQB work
- 2nd FP reticle visible at all magnification
- Locking Elev/Win turrets

Con's
- expensive
- heavy
- "CC" feature is sensitive and may stick on 7y parallax (not allowing use above 3x if stuck)
- mushy turrets and crappy locking feature
- weak/thin reticle design suffers in low light


Vortex Razor HD II E 1-6x
Pro's
Roughly a 0-450/500y optic
- relatively inexpensive
- S&B level brightness
- effective reticle design (Mil, MOA, BDC) to please all
- Wide fov, good eyebox and eye relief
- excellent value

Con's
- takes time to remember 1-2 mil hash marks instead of 0.5-1 mil hash marks like on most optics
- external construction/mechanics are not yet at the same level of the optics the scope provides
- heavy (even the "E" is big for what it is)
- fine/small target shooting suffers with reticle/capped turret design at extended distance

Kahles K16i 1-6x24
Pro's
0 to 400-500 (depending on reticle selection)
- Diverse reticle options
- Daylight bright with fine-tune (not click) adjustment
- one of the lightest high-end optics
- spare battery compartment in windage
- very simple
- Arguably the best sight picture/most forgiving of any LPVO on the market
- integral tail on mag adjustment ring

Con's
- Weird reticle designs...all with their own fatal flaws
- Ugly AF (aesthetics of an optic 1/5th the price)
- Turrets feel cheap and of obvious Euro hunter lineage
- Limited service history and footprint in US

Honorable mention:
I still have some love for the old 1.1-4x20 CQB and 1-4x24 LE Short dots. When not relied upon as a sole source of magnification and when used in conjunction with mini bino's or monocular are still a viable tool for the effective range for all but maybe >16.5" match barrel 5.56 AR's. While some of the features are dated, they still work provided the user the usuer is familiar with any idiosyncrasies. Though I find it curious that these "obsolete" optics still carry some nice features that others have failed to capitalize on like the locking illumination turret and on/off/on/off alternating settings (good on Vortex for keeping that going, but shame on everyone else...including you S&B). For those that don't have the coin for this high-end stuff the Steiner P4xi gives an amazing optic for the money. When you dice it up, and compare every feature to any of the above, it's going to fall short. However for the visual picture you get for $450ish is an absolute bargain.


What about Nightforce? While I like Nightforce optics, they all have only given me bland images...be it ATACR or NXS. I've heard it from the horses mouth that if I think the 2.5-10x24mm is like looking through a straw, I'm not going to dig the NX8 either. And while the ATACR 1-8x might be a fine optic there are features that keep it from being a game-changer, do-all right off the bat. For the money, it doesn't interest me. From what I have seen, the Minox LPVO offering looks to be going the farthest in getting the most features right (in my opinion) but that's only looking at it on paper.

[JohnHB]

"BEST" would be the Nightforce ATACR 1-8. Everything else is a comprise, and people spend a lot of time online trying to excuse inferior choices.

[Doc Safari]

"BEST" would be the Nightforce ATACR 1-8. Everything else is a comprise, and people spend a lot of time online trying to excuse inferior choices.

In the absolute sense, you could be right. Relatively speaking, though, not everyone can afford $2,700 for an optic, and so "the best all-around optic" has to at least take into account what the person can afford. The other side of that is, of course, that you get what you pay for and you should purchase as much optic as you can afford.

[JohnHB]

In the absolute sense, you could be right. Relatively speaking, though, not everyone can afford $2,700 for an optic, and so "the best all-around optic" has to at least take into account what the person can afford. The other side of that is, of course, that you get what you pay for and you should purchase as much optic as you can afford.

I don't care what people can "afford" if you want the best, it is the NF ATACR. If you don't want to buy it, buy some lower grade optic.

[OldState]

Personally, the only optic under the Razor I would go with would be the Steiner P4xi. It was the optic I started with to make sure LPVOs worked for me and its is an amazing optic for the price. With $1000 budget I'd give it until after shot and pick up one of the used Razor's that people will start to move for the newest latest and greatest or I would save up a little bit more after and buy the Razor before I went with the PST line.

Edit. The glass may be comparable on the PST Line (haven't used it to tell you) but what you are giving up to get that lower cost is going to be durability.

I originally thought there would be structural build differences but is that known for sure? Based on the few reviews I was starting to think the difference was the glass and country of origin. Some felt construction was almost identical as well.

I was thinking of going with this for the same reason you went with the P4xi. I’ve seen some great deals in them

[Wake27]

"BEST" would be the Nightforce ATACR 1-8. Everything else is a comprise, and people spend a lot of time online trying to excuse inferior choices.

Compelling post with lots of evidence, well done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pappabear]

Lotta good optics and obviously its a personal preference. I have a friend with an effed up eye and the only reticle that works well is an Eotech, ouch. I do love me some NF, I didn't buy the ATACR in the 1-8, just the NSX but I love it. I don't know all the Kahles and short dots, but Im sure they are nice. I would comfortable say a 1-8 should be the current winner. Just figure your budget and start with Vortex / Primary arms and end up in the NF and likewise optics.

And shoot that fcker till it hurts

PB

[pointblank4445]

There is no perfect optic...that's it.

A person can make their case for specific features for specific tasks but the perfect do-all that does EVERYTHING the best isn't there. "The Best" is a function of personal application for a given range (or 'scope' if you will) of possible tasks. Apply accordingly.

[JoshNC]

PB, I’m curious what you dislike about the atacr 1-8.