The "Best" All-Around Optic for your AR?

[Biggy]

As stated above {The Best" is a function of personal application for a *given range}*, and IMHO, that can and many times does vary from person to person.

[RobertTheTexan]

The OP’s post reminds me of my first AR build. Like his desire for the best GP optic, I wanted the best GP AR.
I don’t think “best” and “general purpose” should be in the same sentence.

Let the purpose of your AR drive optic choice. You will be happier I believe. But WAY more importantly, if you train, it will help you execute your primary mission as best as you possible can, whether it’s home defense or whatever you maybe be preparing for. Chances are it will do other things good . as well. Roll with that until you you don’t want to roll with that.






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[pointblank4445]

PB, I’m curious what you dislike about the atacr 1-8.

I don't "dislike" it per say. NF did some good things with it that are a step in the right direction for sure.

As I noted above, NF glass in general doesn't "pop" for me like in other optics. It works, but the clarity isn't there for my eyes compared to other makers. I also don't care for the whole eye-piece that turns with the mag adj. ring on the ATACR and non-compact NF models. It's not a deal breaker but I find it inconvenient, and I'm not a fan of their locking diopter and prefer a Euro style.
These are personal preferences.

Functionally, I'm not sold on the reticle. I said several years ago that to crack the 1-8x code, one has to use the duplex features of the crosshair to help keep from making a FFP functional on 1x and that a circle crosshair is going to be necessary (Trijicon, Leupold also figured it out). The ideal solution would be a 2FP dot and a FFP reticle...but that's a tougher nut to crack (USO, Premier and S&B have tried). I think they have limited their use with the smaller circle closer to the larger dot for their center. Most don't hold any regard to when I say that I do use the whole magnification range on my optics and if it only is ideal on 1x and 8x, it cuts short the versatility. I may go as low as 2x to watch the side of a structure, and then up to 6x to focus in on an opening/window/door. I also know that 4x is happy medium for off-hand distance before I struggle to fight wobble. I think they should have stretched it out a bit like the Kahles SM1 or like what Leupold did with the Horus on the CQBSS. Again, their take on it is a crack at a difficult problem...opinions will vary.

I also like that they thought to add the wind/mover holds...not my preferred design, but they are there none the less.

I also feel that 8x is where FFP and precision/exposed turrets begin to make sense. I'm 95% certain I have seen Braken of NF post pics of a 1-8x ATACR with the Zero Set turret atop an HK rifle...even if that is not the case, the Zero Set is a cool turret and should be an option as well. Per Bracken, they have no intent on putting that out commercially...at this time. For an optic of this caliber, I would like that option.

While none of these things would prevent me from doing work with one if I had to, it's not something I'm going to run out and shell out the asking price for given what/how I use my optics.

Were I somebody who was into large-frame gas guns and needed a DMR optic...for say a 14.5" KAC SR25, you bet I'd consider the ATACR 1-8. Is it my do-all 0-800m CQB/Snioper perfection?...no, that unicorn has yet to be created.

[Biggy]

The USSOCOM-spec ATACR riflescope will sport a custom BDC combat reticle. Has Nightforce indicated yet if this scope and reticle combo will be available to everyone at some point?

[Slippers]

I also feel that 8x is where FFP and precision/exposed turrets begin to make sense. I'm 95% certain I have seen Braken of NF post pics of a 1-8x ATACR with the Zero Set turret atop an HK rifle...even if that is not the case, the Zero Set is a cool turret and should be an option as well. Per Bracken, they have no intent on putting that out commercially...at this time. For an optic of this caliber, I would like that option.

The prototypes had the NF zero hold turrets. There's a few old pictures of some cag guns where the button is visible, and I held one in my hands that had the zero hold turret over a year before they were released. The reason that turret didn't make it to the production units is due to a lawsuit with Leupold.

[pointblank4445]

The prototypes had the NF zero hold turrets. There's a few old pictures of some cag guns where the button is visible, and I held one in my hands that had the zero hold turret over a year before they were released. The reason that turret didn't make it to the production units is due to a lawsuit with Leupold.

Yes, "zero hold" not zero set... I didn't think "set" sounded right...that's what's on the SHV then.

Thanks Will

[irondude]

This is a great thread. I am not convinced there is a best all-around general use optic. I think the purpose of the rifle is key. If I built an all-around general-purpose rifle it would include night vision capability. I know this does not apply to everyone.

My choice of optic would also depend on the IR pointer/IR illuminator being used. Currently for me I have a Steiner DBAL A3. This makes it harder to use an LPVO without a higher scope mount to clear the DBAL. I don’t really care for the higher mount as this makes it more difficult to get a solid check weld for normal daytime use.

So, I have opted for an Aimpoint Comp M5 with an Aimpoint 3X Magnifier for a gun built for general-purpose and night vision use. For daytime and overall general-purpose use, I have opted for the Kahles K16i LPVO. The Kahles is my current favorite LPVO.

I am saving $$$ for a BE Meyers MAUL IR pointer/IR illuminator. That will change the way I think about using an LPVO for night vision. At that point I think the K16i could become my overall general purpose do most things well optic.

For me it comes down to priorities and tradeoffs.

[militarymoron]

This is a great thread. I am not convinced there is a best all-around general use optic. I think the purpose of the rifle is key.

I've seen that repeated quite a bit in this thread - 'the mission drives the equipment' etc. and many have named their favourite optics choices for different situations and distances. But, the way I interpreted the OP's original question was what if you had to grab one rifle to meet unseen needs and unknown purposes/mission at unknown distances? 'SHTF' was the key word/phrase. So, it could mean any number of things, where you might use your rifle to defend yourself, hunt game, to observe from a distance, to identify targets etc. Basically, which one optic would be most versatile over the largest range of unexpected conditions?

[irondude]

I've seen that repeated quite a bit in this thread - 'the mission drives the equipment' etc. and many have named their favourite optics choices for different situations and distances. But, the way I interpreted the OP's original question was what if you had to grab one rifle to meet unseen needs and unknown purposes/mission at unknown distances? 'SHTF' was the key word/phrase. So, it could mean any number of things, where you might use your rifle to defend yourself, hunt game, to observe from a distance, to identify targets etc. Basically, which one optic would be most versatile over the largest range of unexpected conditions?

Good point militarymoron. I guess I am struggling with the same question as the OP.

Right now, If I had to grab one rifle and run out the door to meet an undetermined thread, day or night. It would be a rifle equipped with an Aimpoint Comp M5 with an Aimpoint 3X Mag 1, and a DBAL A3.

[JoshNC]

I also don't care for the whole eye-piece that turns with the mag adj. ring on the ATACR and non-compact NF models. It's not a deal breaker but I find it inconvenient, and I'm not a fan of their locking diopter and prefer a Euro style.
These are personal preferences.

I completely agree with all of this.

Functionally, I'm not sold on the reticle. I said several years ago that to crack the 1-8x code, one has to use the duplex features of the crosshair to help keep from making a FFP functional on 1x and that a circle crosshair is going to be necessary (Trijicon, Leupold also figured it out). The ideal solution would be a 2FP dot and a FFP reticle...but that's a tougher nut to crack (USO, Premier and S&B have tried). I think they have limited their use with the smaller circle closer to the larger dot for their center. Most don't hold any regard to when I say that I do use the whole magnification range on my optics and if it only is ideal on 1x and 8x, it cuts short the versatility. I may go as low as 2x to watch the side of a structure, and then up to 6x to focus in on an opening/window/door. I also know that 4x is happy medium for off-hand distance before I struggle to fight wobble. I think they should have stretched it out a bit like the Kahles SM1 or like what Leupold did with the Horus on the CQBSS. Again, their take on it is a crack at a difficult problem...opinions will vary.

Interesting points. I find the ATACR 1-8 reticle to be more useable on 1x than the H27D.

I also feel that 8x is where FFP and precision/exposed turrets begin to make sense. I'm 95% certain I have seen Braken of NF post pics of a 1-8x ATACR with the Zero Set turret atop an HK rifle...even if that is not the case, the Zero Set is a cool turret and should be an option as well. Per Bracken, they have no intent on putting that out commercially...at this time. For an optic of this caliber, I would like that option.

Agreed, I also would like to see the locking turrets that are present on the 4-16 atacr. But unfortunately it is as Slippers mentioned and won’t likely be a feature we see.

Were I somebody who was into large-frame gas guns and needed a DMR optic...for say a 14.5" KAC SR25, you bet I'd consider the ATACR 1-8. Is it my do-all 0-800m CQB/Snioper perfection?...no, that unicorn has yet to be created.

I think the ATAR (for my needs and wants) comes very very close to perfect. It’s on a kac SR25 APC. Having had a chance to play with a friend’s SFP 1-8 Short Dot, I was pretty underwhelmed. DFP sounds amazing, but unless the FFP reticle is designed with the ability to use it without illumination on 1x, you are relying on batteries in an optic that chews them up pretty quickly. The CC mode on the S&B 1-8 SDs is fantastic. The reticle and illumination left me totally underwhelmed.