Vortex Nation

[Mysteryman]

Anyone notice a trend? Almost every poster thus far has had a Vor CRAP product shit the bed early in life and not due to hard use. Vortex sells a great warranty, not a great product. Why people feel that repairing and most times replacing a defective product that has not seen any real use is acceptable or somehow rates as amazing service is beyond me. I guess the down time, shipping, contacting Vortex, re zeroing, all that effort is free for some and worth the "savings" by purchasing low end junk. There are plenty of CS stories from the reputable brands that are just as stellar or better. Some of the CS stories were well outside warranty or common sense. The big difference is that quality products rarely need to be warrantied and we simply don't hear about it as often as with Vortex.

[crosseyedshooter]

Anyone notice a trend? Almost every poster thus far has had a Vor CRAP product shit the bed early in life and not due to hard use. Vortex sells a great warranty, not a great product. Why people feel that repairing and most times replacing a defective product that has not seen any real use is acceptable or somehow rates as amazing service is beyond me.

I think this or a similar topic was addressed by a Vortex rep on TOS. Essentially, Vortex sells many tiers of product and their highest volume by far are for the entry-level “budget” market. This market is mainly for consumers and hobbyists that are more tolerant of downtime, tinkering, etc. Their higher tier products such as the Razor II line are built to compete with the Nightforces and Leupolds of the world. Those brands don’t have a “budget” line of products. So, it’d be more fair to compare similar product levels instead of the entire brand, for what it’s worth.

[DCB]

As the poster above mentioned, Vortex is the largest optic manufacturer / seller in existence. By the volume of their product in circulation, they will have more stories of their warranty being used. That, and they have so many product tiers spanning from entry-level to professional hard-use that comparing their entire product line to NF or Trijicon is pretty silly. You should be comparing them to the Razors alone. Judging by the elective use of some Razor optics by our most elite military units, I'd say it's on equal footing.

I have owned Vortex Vipers & Razors, Trijicons, Burris XTR IIs, NF and more.

If you shoot enough, you will end up breaking stuff from everyone. Trijicon's customer service was pretty awful, Burris was a little slower moving, and Bushnell's outright tried to screw me until I put some pretty heavy pressure on them. Vortex's service was / is the best by a wide margin.

[thopkins22]

Anyone notice a trend? Almost every poster thus far has had a Vor CRAP product shit the bed early in life and not due to hard use. Vortex sells a great warranty, not a great product. Why people feel that repairing and most times replacing a defective product that has not seen any real use is acceptable or somehow rates as amazing service is beyond me. I guess the down time, shipping, contacting Vortex, re zeroing, all that effort is free for some and worth the "savings" by purchasing low end junk. There are plenty of CS stories from the reputable brands that are just as stellar or better. Some of the CS stories were well outside warranty or common sense. The big difference is that quality products rarely need to be warrantied and we simply don't hear about it as often as with Vortex.

Surefire has an incredible reputation for their warranty and customer service as well. Are they selling crap with a nice warranty too?

Vortex should probably have done something stronger to differentiate their budget offerings from their premium offerings, but so should Burris, and Leupold, and others.

I own a camera lens that costs three times as much as the most expensive Schmidt and Bender scope. I appreciate quality glass. I also realize that for many uses there is a “good enough” category...and the Razor HD tends to fit in that arena pretty well with very few detractors.

[Mysteryman]

Surefire has an incredible reputation for their warranty and customer service as well. Are they selling crap with a nice warranty too?

Vortex should probably have done something stronger to differentiate their budget offerings from their premium offerings, but so should Burris, and Leupold, and others.

I own a camera lens that costs three times as much as the most expensive Schmidt and Bender scope. I appreciate quality glass. I also realize that for many uses there is a “good enough” category...and the Razor HD tends to fit in that arena pretty well with very few detractors.

Not sure if you missed my point are are simply trying to illustrate it. The top brands also have great warranty, the difference is you'll likely never need it.

I haven't met a single Vortex owner/user who hasn't used their warranty service. Most of those failures were not due to abuse or extreme events, the optics simply shit the bed during regular use or in a handful of cases the optics were dead out of the box. Vortex doesn't make anything, they market the shit out of everything. A company that sells low end garbage along with a handful of higher end offerings is a slimy outfit who's primary goal is profit not performance. Those on a "budget(see too stupid to prioritize their life/finances) can't afford to buy junk, and that's precisely what they end up with when buying Vortex.

There's no end to stories of returned optics from the higher lines of Vortex that are simply replaced vs repaired. If it's cheaper to replace the optic than repair it, then you have to wonder what the optic is really worth? The discount for staff at a shop that sells Vortex is 50% plus Vortex bucks which are earned by the employees for every Vortex product they sell... So a Razor gen 2 that retails for $1399 can be had for $700 by staff. In that $700 is profit for the store and profit for Vortex. The other $700 you pay as a retail customer is nothing but profit for the store. So out of the "base" $700 how much of that value is actually the cost of the goods? I doubt Vortex has a slim margin on their own products while offering more margin for the vendor. I bet the cost of that optic is somewhere around $200 to produce and ship. Which would leave maybe $300-$400 for Vortex and a slim $100-$200 for the vendor for this staff purchase.

Two cases of replacement vs repair that should make you ask questions. An optic was returned new in box because the user heard a hissing sound when he twisted the magnification ring. That hissing was the nitrogen venting. New in box and the seals let go, quality. No biggie, replace seals and re purge... Nope, optic was replaced and received inside 2 weeks. It's cheaper to replace it than repair it?? That was a Viper PST 5-25. Second case: illumination dial stopped working. Optic was replaced not repaired. That too was a PST 1-6. Again, it's cheaper to replace the optic than repair the illumination??

[DCB]

Not sure if you missed my point are are simply trying to illustrate it. The top brands also have great warranty, the difference is you'll likely never need it.

I haven't met a single Vortex owner/user who hasn't used their warranty service. Most of those failures were not due to abuse or extreme events, the optics simply shit the bed during regular use or in a handful of cases the optics were dead out of the box. Vortex doesn't make anything, they market the shit out of everything. A company that sells low end garbage along with a handful of higher end offerings is a slimy outfit who's primary goal is profit not performance. Those on a "budget(see too stupid to prioritize their life/finances) can't afford to buy junk, and that's precisely what they end up with when buying Vortex.

There's no end to stories of returned optics from the higher lines of Vortex that are simply replaced vs repaired. If it's cheaper to replace the optic than repair it, then you have to wonder what the optic is really worth? The discount for staff at a shop that sells Vortex is 50% plus Vortex bucks which are earned by the employees for every Vortex product they sell... So a Razor gen 2 that retails for $1399 can be had for $700 by staff. In that $700 is profit for the store and profit for Vortex. The other $700 you pay as a retail customer is nothing but profit for the store. So out of the "base" $700 how much of that value is actually the cost of the goods? I doubt Vortex has a slim margin on their own products while offering more margin for the vendor. I bet the cost of that optic is somewhere around $200 to produce and ship. Which would leave maybe $300-$400 for Vortex and a slim $100-$200 for the vendor for this staff purchase.

Two cases of replacement vs repair that should make you ask questions. An optic was returned new in box because the user heard a hissing sound when he twisted the magnification ring. That hissing was the nitrogen venting. New in box and the seals let go, quality. No biggie, replace seals and re purge... Nope, optic was replaced and received inside 2 weeks. It's cheaper to replace it than repair it?? That was a Viper PST 5-25. Second case: illumination dial stopped working. Optic was replaced not repaired. That too was a PST 1-6. Again, it's cheaper to replace the optic than repair the illumination??

The top brands also have great warranty, the difference is you'll likely never need it.

I've personally returned products to nearly everyone at the top tier. My closest friends have sent back Kahles (multiple times) ACOGs (for months at a time), NF and more. The OP of this thread just had a NF turret get stuck out of the box just the week or two prior that necessitated return to NF. If you shoot enough, you will end up needing a warranty. And Vortex (in my experience) has the best warranty and experience of all of them.

Vortex doesn't make anything, they market the shit out of everything.

Their AMG and UH-1 products, as well as the turret mechanisms in the Razor are all made in house in Wisconsin. Furthermore, the NF ATACR, Razors, Trij Accupoints and many more all are shipped from the same factory ~100 miles east of Tokyo.

A company that sells low end garbage along with a handful of higher end offerings is a slimy outfit who's primary goal is profit not performance.

A) Every company's goal is profit. B) Just because Volkswagen sells Jettas doesn't make Lamborghinis any less excellent. Same company.

Those on a "budget(see too stupid to prioritize their life/finances) can't afford to buy junk

Jeff Bezos was worth $12b and bought a Honda Accord. Buying something with a good performance to value ratio doesn't make a person any lesser than yourself.

The discount for staff at a shop that sells Vortex is 50% plus Vortex bucks which are earned by the employees for every Vortex product they sell... So a Razor gen 2 that retails for $1399 can be had for $700 by staff.

This is incorrect, much like most of your post. You are just spewing bullshit.

That hissing was the nitrogen venting.

It's argon, not nitrogen. Again, you are incorrect and just spewing bullshit.

New in box and the seals let go, quality. No biggie, replace seals and re purge... Nope, optic was replaced and received inside 2 weeks. It's cheaper to replace it than repair it?? That was a Viper PST 5-25. Second case: illumination dial stopped working. Optic was replaced not repaired. That too was a PST 1-6. Again, it's cheaper to replace the optic than repair the illumination??

Vortex is buying enough optics from their vendors that the suppliers probably immediately issue credit for defective merchandise. Minor repairs that don't necessitate return to the vendor are repaired and sold as off-price to vendors like AA Optics and Cabela's Bargain Cave. Major repairs that can't be done on-site are bulked together on a pallet and returned overseas for refurbishment.

And somehow NOT delaying the customer while waiting for the scope to be returned, checked in, evaluated, repaired, rechecked, and then shipped back is a bad thing?

Trijicon taking 3 months to repair my ACOG made me never buy from them again. And clearly by the market share of their optics at every level proves that I'm not the only one that is irritated at the level of service from their competitors.

[Wake27]

Anyone notice a trend? Almost every poster thus far has had a Vor CRAP product shit the bed early in life and not due to hard use. Vortex sells a great warranty, not a great product. Why people feel that repairing and most times replacing a defective product that has not seen any real use is acceptable or somehow rates as amazing service is beyond me. I guess the down time, shipping, contacting Vortex, re zeroing, all that effort is free for some and worth the "savings" by purchasing low end junk. There are plenty of CS stories from the reputable brands that are just as stellar or better. Some of the CS stories were well outside warranty or common sense. The big difference is that quality products rarely need to be warrantied and we simply don't hear about it as often as with Vortex.

My original response must’ve been deleted, maybe for the best.


Bottom line, in response to one of your more recent posts. I used their warranty to exchange an MRDS because I bought the wrong one to replace the cap on my razor because my 10 pound AR landed directly on the turret cap, on concrete. Since I think neither of those count as VorCRAP, I’m John, so you’ve now met someone that didn’t have to use their warranty because their products are garbage.


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[WS6]

My original response must’ve been deleted, maybe for the best.


Bottom line, in response to one of your more recent posts. I used their warranty to exchange an MRDS because I bought the wrong one to replace the cap on my razor because my 10 pound AR landed directly on the turret cap, on concrete. Since I think neither of those count as VorCRAP, I’m John, so you’ve now met someone that didn’t have to use their warranty because their products are garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the real issue is that Vortex's lineup spans quite a range of price and performance. If you look at how many people use the Razor HD 2 line of optics vs. how many "my Razor HD 2 shit the bed" threads are out there, I think anyone would be legit impressed.

[Doc Safari]

To gauge a company's warranty problems (or not) you would have to know their sales volume and compare the percentage of bad optics to the number produced.

Example: You read threads complaining about this or that problem with LE6920's, but also realize Colt makes a shitload of rifles. The ratio of warranty issues to volume of production is pretty small if you judge it by number of internet threads.

On the other hand, if a small shop like (fill in the blank) had the same number of issues, people would be staying away from them in droves.

Does Vortex crank the things out like gangbusters? Or do they have a small output like Trijicon ACOG's? I speak from experience on ACOG's. When I bought mine there was a months-long waiting list.

[AKDoug]

I've never used Vortex's customer service, nor have I returned the Sparc that shit the bed because the rubber housing design over their buttons would fail again in my use. The scopes I have from them have survived pretty damn well.