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Thread: The Best, Cheap, Home Defense Option

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    I recommend police "low recoil" or "tactical" 12-gauge buckshot loads. These are loaded several hundred feet per second slower than hunting loads, but have the same payload weight. You get less recoil and better control, and the bad guy(s) won't know the difference.
    I never had the guts to hit the street carrying wimpy shotgun ammo, couldn’t get Newton’s Third Law out of my mind so I always purchased and loaded up the regular 00 Buck. Never had to use it but I was glad I had it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdWatcher View Post
    I never had the guts to hit the street carrying wimpy shotgun ammo, couldn’t get Newton’s Third Law out of my mind so I always purchased and loaded up the regular 00 Buck. Never had to use it but I was glad I had it.
    I also prefer the full power loads for serious use. I shoot reduced recoil when training but my guns are loaded with standard ammo for defensive use.
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  3. #23
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    You guys do you, but the effectiveness of the reduced recoil buckshot and slugs in police and HD has been proven - both in gelatin testing and actual usage.

    As someone once said 'the full power buckshot will make them more deader, but dead is good enough.

    Typically with reduced recoil loads, along with adequate penetration, you get better patterning and quicker follow-up shots, if needed.

    The Federal LE1321B someone mentioned earlier, is the gold standard in terms of performance, but LE and the .mil are OOB centric, so it has never really 'taken off' in terms of sales volume.

    I personally use Brenneke Tactical Slugs in both 12 and 20 in the HD shotguns - I don't have to worry about wads.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  4. #24
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    I have two old 870s and would trust neither for defense use. Old wingmaster and a 90's express.

    Both will sometimes lock up after firing and the action will not cycle without a mortar drill.

    Just make sure you verify function well before you put it in the back of the safe.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    You guys do you, but the effectiveness of the reduced recoil buckshot and slugs in police and HD has been proven - both in gelatin testing and actual usage.

    As someone once said 'the full power buckshot will make them more deader, but dead is good enough.

    Typically with reduced recoil loads, along with adequate penetration, you get better patterning and quicker follow-up shots, if needed.

    The Federal LE1321B someone mentioned earlier, is the gold standard in terms of performance, but LE and the .mil are OOB centric, so it has never really 'taken off' in terms of sales volume.

    I personally use Brenneke Tactical Slugs in both 12 and 20 in the HD shotguns - I don't have to worry about wads.
    Completely anecdotal and sample of one but about 5 years ago i shot a large pit bull-- 65-70 pounds in my front yard. I hit him just behind the shoulder at about 10 yards with some Estate RR 00- the company Federal bought to get the Flite Control wad from.

    The last I saw him he was well over a quarter mile away in a neighbors field, moving slow but still under power. Lost my faith in RR loads at that point
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I have two old 870s and would trust neither for defense use. Old wingmaster and a 90's express.

    Both will sometimes lock up after firing and the action will not cycle without a mortar drill.

    Just make sure you verify function well before you put it in the back of the safe.
    I wish I lived close enough to take a look at those for you.

    Mortaring continually will make things worse.

    The Wingmaster, especially, deserves a better fate.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    I have two old 870s and would trust neither for defense use. Old wingmaster and a 90's express.

    Both will sometimes lock up after firing and the action will not cycle without a mortar drill.

    Just make sure you verify function well before you put it in the back of the safe.
    I think I'd fix or sell those guns....
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esq. View Post
    Completely anecdotal and sample of one but about 5 years ago i shot a large pit bull-- 65-70 pounds in my front yard. I hit him just behind the shoulder at about 10 yards with some Estate RR 00- the company Federal bought to get the Flite Control wad from.

    The last I saw him he was well over a quarter mile away in a neighbors field, moving slow but still under power. Lost my faith in RR loads at that point
    In other anecdotal stories, well before the advent of reduced recoil OOB a local police agency tagged an armed robber dead center in the chest with OOB when he exited a liquor store. They chased him a block.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    I wish I lived close enough to take a look at those for you.

    Mortaring continually will make things worse.

    The Wingmaster, especially, deserves a better fate.
    Eventually I'll get around to sending them to a smith, nobody local I would trust and I don't know what to look for.

    If it makes you feel better the wingmaster has only done it a couple of time while the express is pretty regular.

  10. #30
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    I'd call Wilson Combat, they used to have a $99 Remington refurb where they replace most everything and refinish for another fee. You could get both shotguns working in no time just shipping them out.

    On the other hand the 870 is actually pretty simple in operation and troubleshooting. A few hours of troubleshooting video/thread reading/watching and some Brownells ordering could also get you back to operation pretty easily as well.

    FWIW when I bought my Wingmaster new old stock, I immediately replaced the follower, and all the springs and scrubbed it clean as it had been sitting for years and years. I then took it to a shotgun class as I had no idea how to use one. Cut down the forearm as it covered the loading port night 1 after class. Night 2 I cut 1" off the stock. 1 more day of class and I was pretty good, shoulder was toast.

    About 1/2 the 870's in class were scrubbed with 3 followers replaced and 2 mag tube springs night one while I was doing my work. No other brand made it through the class with one synthetic stock cracked due to excessive mortaring

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