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Thread: Is 9mm The Way To Go?

  1. #1
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    Is 9mm The Way To Go?

    Is 9mm the way to go?

    Is 9mm just the minimum caliber that the moderately trained or well trained person should carry for personal protection?

    The elite fugitive or hostage rescue units in the US use 9mm or a more powerful caliber?
    Last edited by Theron D Patron; 01-12-19 at 13:43.
    "Its The Skill Set Of The Person Behind The Weapon"

  2. #2
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    9mm works as well as anything else for people and such. It pokes a hole, and its up to you to poke the hole anatomically well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    9mm works as well as anything else for people and such. It pokes a hole, and its up to you to poke the hole anatomically well.
    Truth...

    9mm will definitely get the job done if you do your part (same as any other round). Just get a good round (HST, Critical Duty, Gold Dot) and make good hits. It’s also nice because you get more practice rounds for your money and can therefore shoot more and become more proficient.

    There is some thought that .45 is king if the bulk of your likely shootings will occur in/around cars, but even that factor isn’t an enormous difference and probably isn’t worth it.

    Lastly, 9mm is fine because Gary Roberts says so....

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    I would add: shot placement is key.
    The way to improve shot placement is to practice.
    9mm is significantly cheaper than other VIABLE options, meaning you can practice more.

    If you are already shooting master-class level or better, use whatever, but you still have capacity in favor of 9mm.

    I say 9mm is minimum, especially with the small guns available now, unless you have a physical handicap that makes it a poor option.

    Yes a lot of pros have gone back to 9mm.

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    This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

    The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

    I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

    An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

    I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

    Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

    Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

    Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



    Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

    So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

    To answer the question: if you have to shoot to save your life, in almost all situations, the 9mm is fine.
    Last edited by Uni-Vibe; 01-13-19 at 15:46.

  6. #6
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    There is a ton of data out there on the 9mm and it's effectiveness on two legged predators. Modern bullet technology is a thing of wonder.

    9mm is the standard when it comes to carry handgun calibers.

    10mm for woods carry.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. George Orwell, 1984

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

    The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

    I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

    An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

    I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

    Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

    Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

    Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



    Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

    So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

    To answer the question: if you have to shoot to save your life, in almost all situations, the 9mm is fine.
    In my experience modern jhp remains in the patient more often than fmj, is my main notation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    In my experience modern jhp remains in the patient more often than fmj, is my main notation.
    But how often do they make the lead-and-copper flowers you see in the ads?

    Bullets I've seen that have killed people look like they were thrown out of a car window: beat up, smeared, jacket partly missing sometimes, but no nice mushrooms.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
    But how often do they make the lead-and-copper flowers you see in the ads?

    Bullets I've seen that have killed people look like they were thrown out of a car window: beat up, smeared, jacket partly missing sometimes, but no nice mushrooms.
    As long as they don't hit bone, they usually make those perfect little flowers .

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. George Orwell, 1984

  10. #10
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    I think the spectrum is narrower than many think.

    For example, on a scale of 1-10 of tissue damage assuming the same depth hole, a .32 FMJ isn't a "2" and a 230 +p .45 JHP isn't an "8".

    I think it's more accurate to say the .32 FMJ is a "3" and the .45 +P JHP is a "5".

    Your 7's and 8's are going to be rifles and shotguns.

    Keep in mind the Police and military greatly consider barrier penetration in their choices and not just at close range. A 9x19 or other "service caliber" makes sense for them.

    I'll carry a .32 acp and up as a primary sidearm. (in something bigger than a "pocket" gun)

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