Is 9mm The Way To Go?

[Theron D Patron]

Is 9mm the way to go?

Is 9mm just the minimum caliber that the moderately trained or well trained person should carry for personal protection?

The elite fugitive or hostage rescue units in the US use 9mm or a more powerful caliber?

[WS6]

9mm works as well as anything else for people and such. It pokes a hole, and its up to you to poke the hole anatomically well.

[TheTick]

9mm works as well as anything else for people and such. It pokes a hole, and its up to you to poke the hole anatomically well.

Truth...

9mm will definitely get the job done if you do your part (same as any other round). Just get a good round (HST, Critical Duty, Gold Dot) and make good hits. It’s also nice because you get more practice rounds for your money and can therefore shoot more and become more proficient.

There is some thought that .45 is king if the bulk of your likely shootings will occur in/around cars, but even that factor isn’t an enormous difference and probably isn’t worth it.

Lastly, 9mm is fine because Gary Roberts says so....

[MegademiC]

I would add: shot placement is key.
The way to improve shot placement is to practice.
9mm is significantly cheaper than other VIABLE options, meaning you can practice more.

If you are already shooting master-class level or better, use whatever, but you still have capacity in favor of 9mm.

I say 9mm is minimum, especially with the small guns available now, unless you have a physical handicap that makes it a poor option.

Yes a lot of pros have gone back to 9mm.

[Uni-Vibe]

This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

To answer the question: if you have to shoot to save your life, in almost all situations, the 9mm is fine.

[WS6]

This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

To answer the question: if you have to shoot to save your life, in almost all situations, the 9mm is fine.

In my experience modern jhp remains in the patient more often than fmj, is my main notation.

[wtm75]

This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

To answer the question: if you have to shoot to save your life, in almost all situations, the 9mm is fine.

I have said the same and was banned for it. You are 200 percent correct. A .380 fmj that penetrates a heart for example will do just the same as a .38 Special, 9mm, .357 Sig, and .357 Magnum of the same diameter. The extra grain weights or speed mean nothing. It either penetrates a vital or a doesn't.

In a hollow point it either reaches the vital or it stops short. If it reaches the vital, it isn't going to matter if the expanded projectile is .416 or .680. We are talking millimeters here. Very small in the grand scheme of things and the heart or brain isn't going to care if it's witha .355 sized hole or a .683 sized hole.

Shot placement to vitals are the only thing that matters. A shot to the stomach or lung with an expanded .45 ACP will eventually kill you later if not treated but a shot to the heart or brain with a .38 Special will kill you in seconds.

Energy dump, expansion, ect is all marketing to sell bullets. The only advantage a hollow point offers is the slightly larger chance that it could graze a vital where the solid projectile would have missed but the hollow point has to get there. The FBI Ballistics Manual even says as such and that's why they have established bare minimum parameters in gel to measure if it'll have sufficient penetration on a real body. They even say that penetration comes first and expansion comes second.

[Doc Safari]

This is one issue where I'm the prophet in the wilderness. I've been hooted by the M4 members, and threatened with Banning by saying this, but I will say that I'm one of the very few M4 members who have actually seen bullets that have killed people, and have studied anatomy, and physiology, seen the results of urban shootings, and have actually talked with trained people who have seen the results of shootings, namely ER doctors and medical examiners.

The upshot is this: (1) all the service calibers work the same, and (2) there's no discernable difference between hollow point and solid (i.e. FMJ or SWC) bullets.

I know this violates the earnest beliefs of shooters, lawmen, soldiers, and the like; but there it is. Bullets kill by penetrating vital organs. Bullets that penetrate vital organs kill people; bullets that do not, don't. This is true of all bullets, from .22 short to 500 S&W magnum. There is no such thing as stopping power, knockdown power, hydrostatic shock, temporary wound cavitation, or any of the other concepts that are repeated as sober truth but bear no origin in the real world.

An ER doctor or a ME cannot tell the caliber, or the construction of the bullet, from examining the entrance, the wound track, or the exit.

I think handguns can be divided into three categories:

Mouseguns -- .22, .25, .32. They are quite deadly but the problem is lack of penetration (not lack of expansion as most people think). The little bullets are light and slow, and they can bounce off the sternum, deflect off a rib, or bounce off the skull, and never get to the vitals. The tiny guns are hard to shoot accurately.

Hand Cannons -- 10mm, .41 Mag, and anything bigger. They certainly will do the job, but not any better than lesser powered weapons. A .400 hole in a heart is just as deadly whether it comes out of a .40 S&W, a 10mm, or a .41 magnum. If a magnum bullet does not hit a vital organ, it's no deadlier than a "lesser" round. The guns are typically large and have limited ammo capacity, and heavy recoil inhibits rapid accurate fire.

Service calibers -- .45, .40, 9mm, .357, .38. They all work the same, as far as anybody can tell. They provide at least adequate penetration with good ammo capacity and controllable recoil.



Among them, the nine really is king because it combines hi capacity with low recoil and gets the job done as well as any of them. All shooters should read the FBI report on this. They found that their trainees shot better with the nine than the others; they also found that their elite units also shot better with the nine. I came to this conclusion independently about the same time they did, and gave up my compact .45 carry gun in favor of a 9mm with double the capacity and much less recoil.

So I carry a hi-cap 9mm, and I carry 124 grain NATO ball ammo. This ammo is inexpensive, functions perfectly, and has adequate penetration through barriers and with large assailants.

I'm 100% behind you on this and I agree. I've also had to weather persecution for believing this. Although I was never on the front lines so to speak, I used to be in law enforcement and I heard too many stories from officers and others with experience that shot placement is king and there is no "magic bullet."

I've always tried to take a middle position that hollowpoints are "fine", but they don't excuse you from regular practice and accuracy proficiency. Too many people erroenously think that if you've got hollowpoints you can drop somebody even with a shot to a non-vital area.

[Rekkr870]

There is a ton of data out there on the 9mm and it's effectiveness on two legged predators. Modern bullet technology is a thing of wonder.

9mm is the standard when it comes to carry handgun calibers.

10mm for woods carry.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Arik]

Are we still all up on the Winchester silvertip? Yes let's bring up 1986 tech! Do you compare anything else to 1986?

If we're going to use that event as justification.....I have a friend who's dad had 10 rounds of 7.62x39 emptied into his chest and left to die. After 3 days he was found and still alive! Must mean that all fmj sucks and all rifle rounds sucks! By your definition