Target Identification at Night

[PatEgan]

Adrenaline_6,
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been running 18650s for years now, but I still can't see carrying those medieval mace-sized lights in a 24-72 hr. search pack along with everything else I will need for that duration, with food, water and clothing included. I'm really not on an intended learning journey, I'm on a continuous use journey. The difference is what emerging technologies there are today as opposed to when I started out many years ago.

To the OP:
Sorry if I thread-jacked your intended trajectory here.

[Dr. Bullseye]

If a recommendation is desired, there must be some determining characteristic......size, weight, price, cd, battery type, UI, etc. The original post was centered on usable throw, so that's where the thread went.

A light that will effectively illuminate a group of people 250 yards away makes a damn poor choice if this group is 10 yards away....or in your living room. A light that's perfect for illuminating a front yard to a distance of 15 yards isn't gonna do squat if the target is 150 yards away.

Good luck in your search for one light to cover all circumstances that may possibly occur.

My current light works just fine indoors. Outdoor lighting is to infinity, I thought that was understood. Mrgunsandgear pretty much summed up the "its too much light" argument. It is false indoors and false outdoors. Parameters for buying outdoor light are: Maximize light output (issues of flood and hot spot aside), minimize weight, minimize length, maximize shock value, minimize price.

[NWPilgrim]

I agree with the advice given to keep any WML switch simple. Not only for simplicity but also durability.

While simple, I had a SF tail cap switch fail and three replacements were also dead out of the box (would not push in to click). I lost faith in SF after that. I was/am a fanboy of Fenix lights but only for non-tactical handheld. Several lights have lasted years of constant use, but recently had a PD32 side switch (mode selector) fail in the lowest mode only. Lifetime warranty is being honored but I would not use any light with dual switches for WML or tactical. I still like the PD32 and PD35TAC for around the house/shop use with the easy access mode switch, but not for tactical use. The E12 (AA) is a handy pocket carry.

I only use Streamlight now for tactical handheld and WML. I have TLR-1H on a couple and like the HL-X for tactical (18650 battery, true 1000 lumens). You can get it rail mounted and pressure switched. The 2L-X (2 cr123 or 18650) and 1L-AA (one cr123 or one AA) are nice EDC/work lights. Single tail cap switch that can be programmed for high on/off only, or multi-mode.

ETA: I can’t really imagine a scenario in which it is justified or wise “self-defense” past the range of the typical 600-1000 lumen WML. Those will easily ID targets out to 40 yds or so even in heavy rain. Beyond that range, not knowing if the person is family or trespasser, I would use a much larger handheld to ID first. I would be interested to know if there is such a civilian scenario that requires a WML that can clearly ID past 40 yds. If there is it had got to be in the tiny minuscule percentage of possible threats. And at that distance do you not have time to ID with handheld and switch to lesser WML for aiming not ID?

[Dr. Bullseye]

I agree with the advice given to keep any WML switch simple. Not only for simplicity but also durability.

While simple, I had a SF tail cap switch fail and three replacements were also dead out of the box (would not push in to click). I lost faith in SF after that. I was/am a fanboy of Fenix lights but only for non-tactical handheld. Several lights have lasted years of constant use, but recently had a PD32 side switch (mode selector) fail in the lowest mode only. Lifetime warranty is being honored but I would not use any light with dual switches for WML or tactical. I still like the PD32 and PD35TAC for around the house/shop use with the easy access mode switch, but not for tactical use. The E12 (AA) is a handy pocket carry.

I only use Streamlight now for tactical handheld and WML. I have TLR-1H on a couple and like the HL-X for tactical (18650 battery, true 1000 lumens). You can get it rail mounted and pressure switched. The 2L-X (2 cr123 or 18650) and 1L-AA (one cr123 or one AA) are nice EDC/work lights. Single tail cap switch that can be programmed for high on/off only, or multi-mode.

ETA: I can’t really imagine a scenario in which it is justified or wise “self-defense” past the range of the typical 600-1000 lumen WML. Those will easily ID targets out to 40 yds or so even in heavy rain. Beyond that range, not knowing if the person is family or trespasser, I would use a much larger handheld to ID first. I would be interested to know if there is such a civilian scenario that requires a WML that can clearly ID past 40 yds. If there is it had got to be in the tiny minuscule percentage of possible threats. And at that distance do you not have time to ID with handheld and switch to lesser WML for aiming not ID?

Thanks for the discussion on Streamlight HL-X. That is exactly the kind or recommendation I was hoping for. But 40 yards, 120 ft.? My driveway is longer than that in my summer house. Suspicious people were on the next property beyond that. We have had break-ins here. Bears use the street as highways to pick berries. There is plenty of reason for me to want to see as much as possible. Also, this property is in a dense forest where you cannot ever get enough light to illuminate anything properly. Identification may not be shooting. If I shot anybody not shooting or threatening to shoot back, it is a trial for sure but I need to see who people are and what they doing way before shooting. The only thing I know for certain is my current light is not going to help much with this.

[NWPilgrim]

And that is why I think you are chasing a ghost in trying to find a lightweight, compact, WML that will throw enough lux at 100+ yds for facial ID. Get a larger handheld for long range ID and a compact 1000 lumen WML for things close enough you might have to shoot.

Otherwise you need a larger, heavier WML with a much larger lens and reflector and battery capacity to reach out that far with crystal clear ID.

Choice is one big WML that reaches to hell and gone but is bulky and heavy (often used by night varmint hunters), or a big handheld and intense but compact and more range limited WML.

Personally I do not subscribe to the idea of using weapon mounted optics or lights to ID (point muzzle at) suspicious noises or movement unless it is within my home or other situation that would justify a shooting. If I hear a bump or clatter outside I am investigating with my best handheld and a firearm with WML holstered or on a sling if I lived on a large property. I just don’t get the need to be using a WML to ID subjects 100-200 yds away (although you have not stated the actual max distance you want to ID).

[Dr. Bullseye]

And that is why I think you are chasing a ghost in trying to find a lightweight, compact, WML that will throw enough lux at 100+ yds for facial ID. Get a larger handheld for long range ID and a compact 1000 lumen WML for things close enough you might have to shoot.

Otherwise you need a larger, heavier WML with a much larger lens and reflector and battery capacity to reach out that far with crystal clear ID.

Choice is one big WML that reaches to hell and gone but is bulky and heavy (often used by night varmint hunters), or a big handheld and intense but compact and more range limited WML.

Personally I do not subscribe to the idea of using weapon mounted optics or lights to ID (point muzzle at) suspicious noises or movement unless it is within my home or other situation that would justify a shooting. If I hear a bump or clatter outside I am investigating with my best handheld and a firearm with WML holstered or on a sling if I lived on a large property. I just don’t get the need to be using a WML to ID subjects 100-200 yds away (although you have not stated the actual max distance you want to ID).

You have a point. Maybe a larger, hand held light would be better. I will look into this. Do you have any suggestions? These possibilities so far have all be suspect as WML except the Streamlight. These are Wowtac A15, Cree XP-LED, Olight Warrior, Fenix UC35, Nitenumen NE01, ThruNite TN12, Nitecore Precise P12GT. Could these take concussion of an AR15? In looking at these larger, hand held lights are also offered as suggestions by some of these companies.

ID distance is as far as possible. It is not simply facial ID. Known people move, look, walk, act in a certain way which will be familiar so these will be identified at even greater distance with less light.

[flenna]

And that is why I think you are chasing a ghost in trying to find a lightweight, compact, WML that will throw enough lux at 100+ yds for facial ID. Get a larger handheld for long range ID and a compact 1000 lumen WML for things close enough you might have to shoot.

Otherwise you need a larger, heavier WML with a much larger lens and reflector and battery capacity to reach out that far with crystal clear ID.

Choice is one big WML that reaches to hell and gone but is bulky and heavy (often used by night varmint hunters), or a big handheld and intense but compact and more range limited WML.

Personally I do not subscribe to the idea of using weapon mounted optics or lights to ID (point muzzle at) suspicious noises or movement unless it is within my home or other situation that would justify a shooting. If I hear a bump or clatter outside I am investigating with my best handheld and a firearm with WML holstered or on a sling if I lived on a large property. I just don’t get the need to be using a WML to ID subjects 100-200 yds away (although you have not stated the actual max distance you want to ID).

Same here. This just sounds like a job for a strong handheld flashlight if the need is just to ID someone on your property. I cannot envision shining a WML at 100 yards and then engaging with the rifle in a SD scenario. Not saying that there isn't some scenario that might require that but in that case NV would be the right tool.

[Dr. Bullseye]

Same here. This just sounds like a job for a strong handheld flashlight if the need is just to ID someone on your property. I cannot envision shining a WML at 100 yards and then engaging with the rifle in a SD scenario. Not saying that there isn't some scenario that might require that but in that case NV would be the right tool.

OK. I've got it. Thanks

[Adrenaline_6]

A Streamlight HLX? That thing is rated at 27,600 cd. Sure it's better than the SF DF...but still abysmal in the grand sheme of things for what the OP seems to be looking for.

I gave you the link for the Warrior X. I did not recommend the other versions of the Warrior because they were not tested like the X was. It has almost 3x the throw of the HLX for a good price. If you wait for one of Olights flash sales you can save money. They sold them for 40% off during Christmas.

I don't know what your budget is either, but I also gave you a way better, more expensive choice too, which I own (an older version - led technology changes and so does his mods). You have options.

[Dr. Bullseye]

I really have not considered shooting outside at night until recently. In thinking about my summer home the max. distance I can see in daylight is 100 yards, so 100 yards is going to be the upper limit. Maybe a WML would work there??? But the winter house is in an area much more open and I have been thinking here in response to NWPilgrim's questions about distance. So, for instance, on the other side of the lake we have a shooting range which goes out to 600 meters. There is nothing special here but a natural backstop. This means any real lighting outside the area where houses are located would need a big, hand held light.