Positive Identification

[jsbhike]

Since we’re talking hypothetically anyway, what are the chances of escalation if two non-hostiles are looking at each other through their respective riflescopes? Let’s say you’re looking out your home window with a riflescope and find someone looking back at you?

Neighbors ranging neighbors.

[WS6]

I often read that 'PID" is an advantage of an LPVO over a non-magnifying optic.

Who here thinks it's a good idea to use a magnifying scope on a rifle to do "identification" of any kind on another human being?

I don't. For several reasons.

1. You're likely committing a felony by pointing a rifle at someone
2. You just committed what anyone with half a brain would consider an overtly hostile act. If he wasn't a threat before, he is now...
3. There are much better observation optics out there (rangefinders and binoculars for starters)

I've asked this question to a friend who is a police officer in Massachusetts and his reply was his dept policy forbids the use of weapon mounted optics and lights for observation in anything but extreme, exigent circumstances.

I don't get how some can use "PID" as one of the advantages of an LPVO. Sure, you can use it for that. The question is, should you?

Help me understand the other side

BTW, I'm a huge fan of LPVOs and am phasing out red dot sights from all my rifles that have them.

PID through a rifle scope is literally the last chance to make an informed decision not to kill someone/something. I'll keep that tool.

Since we’re talking hypothetically anyway, what are the chances of escalation if two non-hostiles are looking at each other through their respective riflescopes? Let’s say you’re looking out your home window with a riflescope and find someone looking back at you?

Well, like, if I had a Razor, and I saw that they had an S&B PM II 1-8CC, I'd realize I'm a poor and would just tell them "I HAVE NOTHING YOU WANT!" and we could both avoid risk!

[prepare]

The most obvious advantages are in a combat environment. LEO OW positions in active situations are another. There can also be legit scenarios for civilians who have layered perimeter security systems on personal property at varying distances to determine who/what activated a motion/IR sensor and be able to see if they have hoodies up and weapons.

[Don Quijote]

There can also be legit scenarios for civilians who have layered perimeter security systems on personal property at varying distances to determine who/what activated a motion/IR sensor and be able to see if they have hoodies up and weapons.

So you point guns at people who might be on your property but have not done anything that merits raising the stakes to deadly force?

Is deadly force authorized against trespassers in your state?

[RHINOWSO]

I'm pretty sure hunting isn't the context in which I most often see 'PID" used as an advantage of scopes

It has to do with any target - hunting, combat, or TEOTWAWKI wackoff daydreams.

[prepare]

So you point guns at people who might be on your property but have not done anything that merits raising the stakes to deadly force?

Is deadly force authorized against trespassers in your state?

Security system alert, unknowns on real time security cams...shades of gray my friend. If you think your self defense scenario will be 100% black and white or cut and dry your mindset may be lacking.

[Don Quijote]

Security system alert, unknowns on real time security cams...shades of gray my friend. If you think your self defense scenario will be 100% black and white or cut and dry your mindset may be lacking.

My mindset is firmly grounded in the laws that govern self defense in my state.

Is yours?

You mindset is governed by looking for an argument.

Just questioning the apparent dogmas that don't seem grounded in reality.

[ST911]

Academic question: Elements of applicable offenses include combinations of threats communicated or perceived, intent, recklessness, negligence. If a mounted, magnified optic is used for PID and the subject is not aware, what violation has occurred? To improve value of the discussion, feel free to include specific statutory references.

[ST911]

Thread cleaned up.
Discuss the issues, not each other.
Please use multi-quote instead of a chain of individual replies.

[prepare]

Apologies for being short. Context can provide an element of realism... just like we don’t search with a WML just for the sake of searching we also don’t glass the park just to ID/PID. During an active threat though the LPVO can be asset allowing you to ID BG’s at distance giving you better situational awareness and more time to make better decisions. Granted for civilians that role is less likely but still valid for those with security systems on likely avenues of approach that are put in place for advanced early warning/detection. The farther out we are aware of a threat the better. The distance time thing...