Vintage Trooper Shooting (1987)

[sundance435]

Saw that video in the academy in 1994. We were told chubby retired shortly after watching how close he came to loosing his gun. I don't remember when the silver tips showed up but the Federal Nyclad 38 special plus + were the round to have in the late 80's early 90's. Everybody still smoked and no one wore a seatbelt or had body armor. David

Hope he did. Guy on the hood is clearly eyeing his gun as it's sitting in there unstrapped, basically right next to hood guy's right arm and he throws some low-ready in there like it's range time.

ETA: I still wouldn't feel undergunned today carrying +p Nyclad 38's in a 686+ as a duty gun with 3 speeds on the belt. Also, IIRC, Coates was using 125gr (Remington?) .357, which was THE "man-stopper" at the time.

[Pappabear]

That Mark Coates video is brutal, never saw that before. Just brutal!

PB

[Sam]

The chubby deputy was worthless.

[26 Inf]

I used that video for several years during training, did not watch it this time, but surprised no one mentioned the Trooper witnessing to the guy: "have you been washed in the Blood of the Lamb?"

The video shows the human and Spiritual side of the Trooper.

[26 Inf]

That Mark Coates video is brutal, never saw that before. Just brutal!

PB

What's sad is that it needn't have happened IF the Troops who passed by Coates's stop weren't so anxious to make their stops to try to get a seizure. I never just drove by another Deputy or a Trooper when they were on a stop, I pulled in to back them. If I was on dispatch, I'd check to see if they were code-4 and then get on my way.

Interdiction ruined LE as far as I'm concerned.

[26 Inf]

You guys have made me think of a couple other videos I used in training:

This one is the murder of Constable Darrel Lunsford, the In the Line of Duty video which I used is much clearer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejy1D1iOYYs

Things you should notice - one-on-one, then two-on-one, no effort to create distance to maintain advantage and keep both in front of him/in field of view; guy puts hat on roof, pretty obvious signal 'there's gonna be some violence' went undetected; Lunsford walks between, turns back on subject; when attacked Lunsford had his maglite in hand, instead of using it to deliver blows to the guy's head and spine, Lunsford goes to the ground with both the flashlight and the guy's DL in hand (this is why at our Academy our 250-300 student officers a year did drop drills in the gym and on the range).

This was a tragedy borne-out largely because, IMO, Constable Lunsford had never faced much resistance, he was a big man, gruff looking and talking, up until this point folks had complied. He got complacent.

Plus psychologically, we want things to go okay. Many people ignore danger signs because they don't want to face the fact that things may not be okay. If you watch enough patrol car video you see this in action - officers look away when they tell someone they are under arrest, look away/ignore signs of increased tension, etc. It is, I believe, a human trait, that we need to be aware of.

I love Trooper Andy Lopez, the guy is a gunfighter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVxGS8BLeBg

Starting at 1:26, you see a shove, pivot away while drawing, good one hand hit and then the NATURAL instinct to close with and conquer what threatens us almost gets Andy shot. Notice how he moves up on the man he dumped, then as another shot is fired he kind of goes 'hey, I'm still in a gunfight.'

Great instinctive tactics, on the In the Line of Duty video of this Trooper Lopez says that at some point he noticed his nights sights glowing and siad to himself: 'hey, if I line these up, I can get some hits' (paraphrase).

A completely unassuming, genuine gunfighter, Trooper Andy Lopez.

[Firefly]

I just liked the old cars and retro gear.
Now come the snuff films.

[Det-Sog]

The chubby cop has a Model 19. That was the gun du jour of the day. The last breed swore by them, even eschewing the more advanced 686. Most loaded .38s as .357s were frowned upon do to folks protesting how "unfair" .357 is. The NAACP did this a lot in the day. So a lot of policies started banning magnum loads. bleh.

Trooper has a 645 which was so high speed in the day.

I went through the academy in 1987. Ah, the memories. I carried a S&W Mod 66 for a year and a half until I was able to save up for a Sig P226. Fortunately, I worked for a department where you could carry anything as long as it was on the approved roster. I had the 2nd Sig in the county. No one knew what they were back then. I seriously considered the S&W 645 as well as the B-92F. If you carried a wheel gun, magnum loads were ENCOURAGED in my state of Texas.

Saw that video in the academy in 1994. We were told chubby retired shortly after watching how close he came to loosing his gun. I don't remember when the silver tips showed up but the Federal Nyclad 38 special plus + were the round to have in the late 80's early 90's. Everybody still smoked and no one wore a seatbelt or had body armor. David

In 87-89&90 it was still Silvertips mostly with a mix of semi-jacketed HPs. Black talon and bonded HPs started coming out around 91... Or so. True... If you wanted decent body armor then, you bought your own.

I just liked the old cars and retro gear.

F*** I'm getting old. So, for 1987... That was state of the are chit back in the day. Back then, we made do with a six shooter, and carried 18 rounds total on us. Only about HALF of us had hand held radios, and there was a pump 12ga in the car. Back-up was minutes away, so you just "handled things" or got your @$$ kicked. What a feeling it was when I switched from the revolveer with 18 rounds on me to a P226 with 46 rounds on me. About the same time, I became one of the first (possibly the first) patrol officer in my A/O that was carbine equipped and qualified. Yes I BOUGHT my own carbine too...

A lot of good cops were killed back then. Things were pretty hot in the late 80's and early 90's. Heck, they are now too. Y'all be careful out there.

[SteyrAUG]

The chubby deputy was worthless.

I understand your sentiment, but if he wasn't there, the other deputy would have gotten double teamed without a doubt. The guy on the hood seemed to look for his chance about a dozen times.

[11B101ABN]

The Trooper was Benji Hodges(sp?).