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Thread: The Ayoob files: An urban gunfighter - The lessons of Lance Thomas

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by prdubi View Post
    Ayoob is wrong..


    He had quite a few pistols laying around the shop..
    Are you disputing the time line? Ayoob mentioned several revolvers and then several SIGs.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  2. #12
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    I'm disputing that he had ALOT....

    Define alot.


    Alt....


    Last time at his shop before his home..

    At least 12 or 13 laying around....

    AYOOB is spot on with everything else..


    I was a huge fan of his...until he took advantage of my uncle.

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    Last edited by prdubi; 01-19-19 at 16:35.
    I believe in peace, love and extremely violent weapons systems... just in case that whole peace-and-love thing doesn't work out.

  3. #13
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    Ayoob is good people......he is solid and knows his stuff...

    But from my experience at Crimson Trace, he's a little touchy felt with the ladies.



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    I believe in peace, love and extremely violent weapons systems... just in case that whole peace-and-love thing doesn't work out.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Tactical Lessons

    Some observers in the gun world thought Thomas would have been better served to carry his hardware on his person instead of stashing the guns in strategic locations in the shop. The theory is that when the gun is on your person, it is always where you can reach it, and also simultaneously secured from unauthorized personnel.

    The criticism has some validity In his third gunfight, if Thomas could have quick-drawn from his hip instead of having to stretch and reach for his SIG, he might not have taken that first gunshot to the neck, which came so close to killing him.

    We each bring our own preferences and habits to these topics. This writer prefers to keep the gun on his person, and has done so since growing up in a jewelry store much like the one in this case. Yet Lance Thomas’ story hits close to home, because my father used the same strategy of keeping his handguns seeded at various places in the store, plus a shotgun in the back room.

    There are times when seated behind a watch repair bench, for example when it might be faster and easier to reach for a holster nailed to the side of the bench than to draw from one’s belt.

    For the most part, the strategy worked for Thomas. It worked better the more guns he had. Toward the end, according to the Turning Point people, he had a gun about every three feet. His workplace was fairly compact. The larger the workspace, the more room there is for the good guy to move, the more sense it makes for the gun to be on the shopkeeper’s person instead of in a fixed location.
    There seems to be support for both strategies.

    Keeping a gun on you has the obvious practicality of always being within reach and secure from the unauthorized.

    Having to reach for a cached pistol that is close by may have the result of forcing you to move off the line of attack once you choose to act. If you are a target trying not to be hit, movement is often beneficial.

    Supplementing the gun being carried with cached guns provides more ammunition (that doesn't have to be carried all the time) and a near-immediate back-up when one gun is disabled (fails, jams or or empties)...and there's that movement thing.
    Wasn't there a thread here recently looking for accounts of when a reload was a vital part of a citizen response to being shot at? Lance Thomas has several examples of it potentially being the difference between winning and dying. He chose to use the New-York-reload over a magazine change but it seems to qualify.

  5. #15
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    I believe after the second attempt I would have found a new business. Good on him for not being ran out but I'd take the hint that I was in the wrong line of work or at least the wrong location.

    And I like having a few around the house too, that way if I'm not carrying on my person then I'm not that far off from one.

  6. #16
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    Lance Thomas issue during those times was basically the background check and also they took his guns after shootings .

    I was with my uncle one time and we went shooting at Angeles.

    It's funny SteyrAug chimed in but I was shooting my dads AUG and it was Cali RAW properly and he commented that I bet Lance would love that.

    End of the day ..he is one of the most fascinating people I have ever met and known.

    The circle of people he knew was vast that had their watches and stuff serviced by him.
    My favorite incident was he went ballistic on some reseller who supposively had some Rolex, Omega and other parts.

    Turns out the parts were fake possibly Chinese...

    Ahhh man he went ballistic on the guy delaying several customers having their Rolex repaired.

    One time he had a Laker player come in who needed his watch repaired...turns out the entire watch was loaded with fake parts as he used to take it to another watch repair shop in Studio City. He took care of that guy easily..I asked him..why didn't you have his picture or something....

    Why? To prove to people I'm not a racist?

    At that time...remember the media portrayal of him was pretty bad....

    He just didn't care....

    At one time...a friend of his told him he could legally do an SBS or AOW in California...and he knows a gun shop in Glendale who can do it. He kinda brushed it off as too much paperwork.

    Interesting guy....



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    I believe in peace, love and extremely violent weapons systems... just in case that whole peace-and-love thing doesn't work out.

  7. #17
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    Interesting caliber choices - the more gun fights the more high-capacity duty calibers...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by prdubi View Post
    I'm disputing that he had ALOT....

    Define alot.


    Alt....


    Last time at his shop before his home..

    At least 12 or 13 laying around....

    AYOOB is spot on with everything else..


    I was a huge fan of his...until he took advantage of my uncle.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Seems Ayoob didn't personally interview him and had to rely on source material. I first learned about Thomas in a documentary called "America Under the Gun" and he talked about having a firearm within two feet of wherever he was in the store. I don't think Ayoob intended to suggest otherwise, only noting that things began with less.

    Given that Thomas seemed to not be interested in reloading that would suggest LOTS of firearms.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMM View Post
    I believe after the second attempt I would have found a new business. Good on him for not being ran out but I'd take the hint that I was in the wrong line of work or at least the wrong location.

    And I like having a few around the house too, that way if I'm not carrying on my person then I'm not that far off from one.
    Some folks are wired different. When you work your ass off to build something from nothing, that kind of person is less willing to surrender any of it. It might not be practical or logical, but sometimes it gets really personal and certain types are willing to go "all in" because they already have everything invested.

    Some guys will hand over a thousand dollars in a robbery but will fight to the death over "dads watch" or a wedding ring.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by prdubi View Post

    My uncle was a good man....very loyal to Lance...just in the end of his life..he took advantage of him.

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    That's disappointing. For someone who is willing to fight and die for things like "right and wrong", it's sad when they demonstrate lack of integrity.

    Even if you compartmentalize "this is business" from everything else, friends should be friends.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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