Criterion vs FN CHF Barrels

[grizzman]

That was an entertaining post.

[MorphCross]

Who makes Noveske chf barrels?

lol...FN

True. But they are manufactured under a set of contracted specifications. The full extent of what those specifications are is I.P. so we only know through what Noveske tells us as well through what we can test and measure on our own.

[pointblank4445]

True. But they are manufactured under a set of contracted specifications. The full extent of what those specifications are is I.P. so we only know through what Noveske tells us as well through what we can test and measure on our own.

Yeah, yeah...

Spec'd FN barrels can vary on minor criteria, but FN is going to maintain a certain standard no matter what. Do some get more TLC/extra steps than others and reflect in the price?...that's the rumor at least. To date, the FN CHF's I've had:
2x Mountain FN's
1x FN factory
2x Hodge Defense Mod 2 FN barrels
1x Noveske
2x Centurion barrels
If you're in the camp that assumed BCM's are FN...then 3x of those too.


Would you like to take a stab at which one shot the worst?...you would probably be surprised.

[vicious_cb]

Yeah, yeah...

Spec'd FN barrels can vary on minor criteria, but FN is going to maintain a certain standard no matter what. Do some get more TLC/extra steps than others and reflect in the price?...that's the rumor at least. To date, the FN CHF's I've had:
2x Mountain FN's
1x FN factory
2x Hodge Defense Mod 2 FN barrels
1x Noveske
2x Centurion barrels
If you're in the camp that assumed BCM's are FN...then 3x of those too.


Would you like to take a stab at which one shot the worst?...you would probably be surprised.

Pretty much, Ive never seen a bad FN barrel. Overgassed yes, but never any major problems.

Im gonna guess BCM which would also mirror my experience in terms of pure accuracy potential.

QC has nothing to do with the barrel accuracy - it only confirms that some part falls within a required specification.
Previously (during WWI/WWII years), QC basically determined if barrel falls within a tighter specs it was sent to a sniper line for evaluation. If test fire confirmed its capabilities it was made into a sniper variant of the rifle. If not, back to the generic line.

You are correct, I simplified it for times sake. The major mfgs that CHF know exactly what to look for weeding out lesser performing barrels from the good ones which is usually consists of some dude at a bench with a bunch of gauges and a bore scope. As you can imagine this would be very time consuming to do for every barrel and where much of the price difference in the different "tiers" of barrels they put out.

[alx01]

I have nothing for or against any companies I've mentioned above or below. I just use them as baseline examples of brand names for the reference in the marketplace.

Key point is not necessarily who makes the barrel FN, DD, HK (i.e. origin of manufacture), but to what standards and what processes as well as post processing. Top end manufacturers do additional individual inspection (not batch testing), hand lapping, concentricity check, possibly crowning, threading, air gauging, hardness check, port drilling location (lands vs grooves), and other things I don't even know about to ensure both consistency and uniformity of an individual unit and across the product line. This is without getting into the discussion of chamber profile, barrel profile and resulting harmonics, rifling profile. All of this increases costs and rejection rate significantly for the premium barrel manufacturer.

Brand X (FN/DD/Green Mountain) barrel from Palmetto (or other value oriented brand) is NOT the same as the barrel you'll get from Noveske/Criterion/Lilja. Customers who buy those typically know the difference and are willing to pay for it. Even if randomly tested barrel performance of Noveske/Criterion is similar to Palmetto/BA premium customer pays for the assurance and guarantee of premium quality, product and customer service.

Here is a recent example which aligns well with my point: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...w-Faxon-barrel

[pointblank4445]

Pretty much, Ive never seen a bad FN barrel. Overgassed yes, but never any major problems.

Im gonna guess BCM which would also mirror my experience in terms of pure accuracy potential.

Of the 3 BCM's one was a shooter so that brought the average up. The worst overall is the FN factory and since it's a 14.5 pinned middy, I can't confirm nor deny that the Warcomp CT is partly to blame. It inexplicably loves MEN 5.56 55gr. It's an expendable bullet-hose trainer gun with a red dot so It doesn't matter.

Pretty much all of the 16" FN middy's are what some would be considered "overgassed" or at the top end of the desirable gas port size. My old Mountain barrel was a gas ring eatin' MFer. Probably changed those out 2x more than other guns.

Again...it's a $275ish (give or take depending on who's name is on it) barrel. Some people can't accept it for what it is.

[alx01]

Yeah, yeah...

Spec'd FN barrels can vary on minor criteria, but FN is going to maintain a certain standard no matter what. Do some get more TLC/extra steps than others and reflect in the price?...that's the rumor at least. To date, the FN CHF's I've had:
2x Mountain FN's
1x FN factory
2x Hodge Defense Mod 2 FN barrels
1x Noveske
2x Centurion barrels
If you're in the camp that assumed BCM's are FN...then 3x of those too.


Would you like to take a stab at which one shot the worst?...you would probably be surprised.

It makes sense and I think you are right on the FN. They are large enough and probably have a well established process not to bend over backwards for a small order of a few thousand barrels to save costs. I suspect it will cost them more to adjust the process to a lesser quality than savings they'll pass on to the customer (customer being a company OEM'ing barrels from FN).

[vicious_cb]

Of the 3 BCM's one was a shooter so that brought the average up. The worst overall is the FN factory and since it's a 14.5 pinned middy, I can't confirm nor deny that the Warcomp CT is partly to blame. It inexplicably loves MEN 5.56 55gr. It's an expendable bullet-hose trainer gun with a red dot so It doesn't matter.

Pretty much all of the 16" FN middy's are what some would be considered "overgassed" or at the top end of the desirable gas port size. My old Mountain barrel was a gas ring eatin' MFer. Probably changed those out 2x more than other guns.

Again...it's a $275ish (give or take depending on who's name is on it) barrel. Some people can't accept it for what it is.

Im curious if you are seeing improved accuracy out of the Hodge and Centurions. Rumint says they are spec'd with tapered bores to improved accuracy.

[MorphCross]

Who makes Noveske chf barrels?

lol...FN

Would you like to take a stab at which one shot the worst?...you would probably be surprised.

Given the tone either:
One of the Hodge.
The Noveske.
One of the Centurion.

Not so much surprised. As with all things large sample sizes from a single production run, or even under a single contract order would be telling. Barrel purchases strung out over a period of years with no context to quantity purchased at a given time.

Just saw the disclosed reply. It seems I must feast on crow tonight.

[pointblank4445]

It makes sense and I think you are right on the FN. They are large enough and probably have a well established process not to bend over backwards for a small order of a few thousand barrels to save costs. I suspect it will cost them more to adjust the process to a lesser quality than savings they'll pass on to the customer (customer being a company OEM'ing barrels from FN).


Just out of curiosity - which was the worst performer FN for you and which one was the best?

The Hodge barrels is the widest varying to the FN lightweight design that's seen in the Centurion, Noveske, and others. The Mountain is the same less the lightened profile froward the gas block journal.

So you want to know performance...Let's say:
Excellent: MOA with 2+ factory loads with sub MOA potential
Good: 1-1.25 MOA with at least 1 load, no more than 1.5 MOA w/ quality factory
"Meh": 1.5ish MOA consistency
Poor: 2 MOA is all you're going to get

The Mountain's: 1 Good, 1 Meh
BCM: 1 Good, 1 Meh, 1 Poor
FN: 1 Poor
Centurion: 2 Good
Hodge: 1 Excellent, 1 Good (at least...limited range time)
Noveske: 1 Meh

Pretty much all had a go with at least a 1-4x or 1-6x and had a Geissele trigger and free-float rail (KAC, Larue, DD, Geissele or Hodge/MEGA) and BH Match ammo at the least. Again, I can't confirm nor deny subtleties in tolerance stacking or different muzzle devices affecting accuracy in a significant ways.

To put it plainly, 1/2 of the lot could out-shoot my Colts consistently...the other 1/2 not so much.

HK...now I'll admit I'm not the fan I once was, but they have always shot around MOA with Hornady or BH. I actually had one out-shoot a Noveske stainless with more than a few different factory loads. What's funny is they are slow when you chrono them...they pretty much are about 100fps slower than their DI Colt counterpart.