Mebbe time to say farewell to AK rifles..?

[RetroRevolver77]

Actually, I believe MTK was a Russian Orthodox Christian. In the AK episode of History Channel's "Tales of the Gun" he refers to "Holy Scripture." Normally a person does not use that terminology unless one is a believer.

Listen I was kidding there. One thing about Eastern Europe and Russia today is that since the fall of Communism- they fully embraced their faith again.

So when the weapon has a stoppage, you call it a safety feature? I’m going to try to remember that one, and apply it to all weapons large and small.

Stovepipe? Nah, bruh, thats a safety feature.
Failure to acheive battery due to filth? Safety feature.

It is a safety feature. The AK is not a sealed system like the AR specifically in the gap area where the selector closes. The InRange video highlights that difference. So if debris does get in front of the bolt head, the carrier group won't close all the way- and will not fire. There are two specific safety stops, one is the tail on the back of the bolt carrier keeping the hammer from hitting the firing pin along with the anti-pre lock engagement built into the bolt/bolt carrier interface so the bolt head can't fully rotate until it's in battery. It can run fine with tons of sand inside, it's just that small gap area if large enough grains of sand get in front of the bolt head- it won't close and won't fire, keeping the end user safe.




Anyway, I think everyone should own at least a few AK's in their collection.


M

[NWMI]

So, bottom line, the ak won’t pass the “extreme environmental test”. You’re requirement that a rifle is ONLY good if it will pass any environmental test thrown at it asinine. You give me a rifle and I’ll get it to fail.

Like with anything else it’s on the person to take care of their equipment.

[mbinky]

"Tests" are only part of the equation. The real world is another. And in the real world the AR is superior.

[Doc Safari]

"Tests" are only part of the equation. The real world is another. And in the real world the AR is superior.

Yes, people who tout the AK's "superior design" then tend to forget its almost universal "crappy manufacturing and quality control." Just because the gun works when it's full of sand doesn't mean the bolt was properly hardened and the gun fails in 500 rounds because of it.

[RetroRevolver77]

So, bottom line, the ak won’t pass the “extreme environmental test”. You’re requirement that a rifle is ONLY good if it will pass any environmental test thrown at it asinine. You give me a rifle and I’ll get it to fail.

Like with anything else it’s on the person to take care of their equipment.

The AK 103 specifically was the only rifle that passed the extreme environmental tests but we already covered that in a 40 page thread.

"Tests" are only part of the equation. The real world is another. And in the real world the AR is superior.

Once they started modernizing AK's such to add optics, rail systems and suppressors- I'd say it's a wash.

Yes, people who tout the AK's "superior design" then tend to forget its almost universal "crappy manufacturing and quality control." Just because the gun works when it's full of sand doesn't mean the bolt was properly hardened and the gun fails in 500 rounds because of it.

Izhmash, Arsenal, CZ, Fabryka Broni have the same manufacturing equipment as HK or FN.


M

[NWMI]

The AK 103 specifically was the only rifle that passed the extreme environmental tests but we already covered that in a 40 page thread.

M

But it didn’t pass that test...so 100% junk.

[Doc Safari]

Having owned maybe 30+ AK's in my life since the early 1990's (I now own NONE), here is a list of quality control problems I've encountered over the years. Granted, some items are due to the idiotic 922(r) requirements, but since civilian grade AK's are all I have access to I have to count these problems too:

1. Soft bolt carrier. Tail was so distorted in a few hundred rounds it had curled up enough to hamper the hammer fall.
2. Soft bolt. Head mushroomed in a few hundred rounds making chambering difficult
3. Soft hammer. Beat to crap in a few hundred rounds.
4. Poor disconnector engagement. Led to doubling and even tripling.
5. Poorly fitted, rattly receiver cover.
6. Soft receiver. Caused gun to start coming apart within 2,000 rounds. First symptom was front of receiver cover flying up due to receiver stretching.
7. Crappy trigger. "Trigger slap" is a thing.
8. Poor receiver riveting. I actually had more than one AKM from more than one country with an obviously loose or improperly installed rivet or rivets.
9. Rough feed ramp or trunnion guides. Had more than one AK that sustained damage to these two areas just chambering rounds during firing.
10. Canted rear sight block.
11. Excessively loose gas tube locking lever.
12. Too shallow gas tube lever detent.
13. Too much rotational play in the gas tube.
14. Off-center gas block and partially blocked gas port in the barrel.
15. Canted front sight base.
16. Rifling damaged by the drilling of the gas port.
17. Badly chromed bore with excess chrome partially obscuring the rifling.
18. Bad hammer geometry in a 5.56 Romanian AK that allowed the hammer to damage the bolt tail.
19. Horrendous and constant feeding, extraction, and ejection problems in Arsenal 5.56 milled AK's.
20. Receiver left a little too wide at the hammer hole necessitating digging through the parts box for an overlong hammer pin.
21. Poor "unbanning" machining of the receiver leaving the mag well slightly off center.
22. Out of spec muzzle device retaining pin in the FSB so that it doesn't retain the muzzle device (pin was too short).
23. Stiff selector
24. Too loose selector
25. Selector detent in receiver missing or too shallow
26. Crappy wood that cracks and splits


If I think of more, I'll come back and edit this list.

Having owned almost as many AR's I can say that the only "factory defect" that I've encountered was a bolt ring that failed within the first 200 rounds, and a hammer pin that was not completely pushed in allowing the hammer pin to walk. Both were easily correct in at home with no tools.

[RAM Engineer]

You forgot:
27. magazine wells not machined properly
28. Improper riveting of magazine release lever

[Doc Safari]

You forgot:
27. magazine wells not machined properly

Covered that in #21 but maybe I didn't phrase it too clearly.

28. Improper riveting of magazine release lever

You're right. I did have one like that.

[Arik]

Having owned maybe 30+ AK's in my life since the early 1990's (I now own NONE), here is a list of quality control problems I've encountered over the years. Granted, some items are due to the idiotic 922(r) requirements, but since civilian grade AK's are all I have access to I have to count these problems too:

1. Soft bolt carrier. Tail was so distorted in a few hundred rounds it had curled up enough to hamper the hammer fall.
2. Soft bolt. Head mushroomed in a few hundred rounds making chambering difficult
3. Soft hammer. Beat to crap in a few hundred rounds.
4. Poor disconnector engagement. Led to doubling and even tripling.
5. Poorly fitted, rattly receiver cover.
6. Soft receiver. Caused gun to start coming apart within 2,000 rounds. First symptom was front of receiver cover flying up due to receiver stretching.
7. Crappy trigger. "Trigger slap" is a thing.
8. Poor receiver riveting. I actually had more than one AKM from more than one country with an obviously loose or improperly installed rivet or rivets.
9. Rough feed ramp or trunnion guides. Had more than one AK that sustained damage to these two areas just chambering rounds during firing.
10. Canted rear sight block.
11. Excessively loose gas tube locking lever.
12. Too shallow gas tube lever detent.
13. Too much rotational play in the gas tube.
14. Off-center gas block and partially blocked gas port in the barrel.
15. Canted front sight base.
16. Rifling damaged by the drilling of the gas port.
17. Badly chromed bore with excess chrome partially obscuring the rifling.
18. Bad hammer geometry in a 5.56 Romanian AK that allowed the hammer to damage the bolt tail.
19. Horrendous and constant feeding, extraction, and ejection problems in Arsenal 5.56 milled AK's.
20. Receiver left a little too wide at the hammer hole necessitating digging through the parts box for an overlong hammer pin.
21. Poor "unbanning" machining of the receiver leaving the mag well slightly off center.
22. Out of spec muzzle device retaining pin in the FSB so that it doesn't retain the muzzle device (pin was too short).
23. Stiff selector
24. Too loose selector
25. Selector detent in receiver missing or too shallow
26. Crappy wood that cracks and splits


If I think of more, I'll come back and edit this list.

Having owned almost as many AR's I can say that the only "factory defect" that I've encountered was a bolt ring that failed within the first 200 rounds, and a hammer pin that was not completely pushed in allowing the hammer pin to walk. Both were easily correct in at home with no tools.

Half that sounds like Century, B-West and parts kits poorly assembled.

B-West was infamous for using none heat treated US receivers. Not exactly the fault of the manufacturer when Century or someone else here tries to save pennies buy installing sub standard parts

Having roughly the same amount of AKs (none in 5.56) I've never ran into any of these problems. Especially nothing with soft bolts. Worst I ever ran into was canted front sights and mag wobble thanks to Century.