Mebbe time to say farewell to AK rifles..?

[RetroRevolver77]

Sorry, "Putinist Russians with delusions of empire."

And yes. Seriously. Where'd they shave the weight off? By making a stamped aluminum lower? You really think the Russians, who have been issuing 10+ lb. AKs for their SOF, will have succeeded where the Finns and Swiss, Belgians and Swedes, Israelis and Marc Krebs have failed?



Why not? They've got to keep it believable. A 5.75 lb. über-AK isn't believable.

Maybe the number is accurate, but is an unloaded rifle sans magazine - while the AK-74M is unloaded with magazine. Or maybe the Russians have picked up on the helium balloon trick American commercial manufacturers seem to have used for their lightweight bolt-action rifles for years.

So the model Wiki references for weight is actually the older AK 200 that wasn't adopted. The actual AK-12 weighs 7.71 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The base AK 105 which the AK 12 is modeled after, weighs 6.6 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The Bulgarian 106CR weighs just 6.1 lbs without mag and that's with the heavier AKM style carrier group. Smaller variants would be even lighter, especially if they use an AKS-74U type because those start at around 5.47 lbs with an unloaded magazine.

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/k...-ak-15-rifles/

[Belloc]

Sorry, "Putinist Russians with delusions of empire."

And obviously the road to reestablishing the USSR and finally achieving global domination and oppressing every last man, woman, and child, under the yoke of communism, is fibbing about the weight of their new rifles and claiming that it is actually slightly lighter than it really is? Who knew the KGB were so crafty?
Again, seriously?

And yes. Seriously. Where'd they shave the weight off? By making a stamped aluminum lower? You really think the Russians, who have been issuing 10+ lb. AKs for their SOF, will have succeeded where the Finns and Swiss, Belgians and Swedes, Israelis and Marc Krebs have failed?

Well they ditched the FSB entirely as well as the steel handguard retaining plate for starters, and there is also no longer a cleaning rod under the barrel. But again, I'm trying to understand just how saying that it is slightly lighter serves their "delusions of empire".

[Belloc]

So the model Wiki references for weight is actually the older AK 200 that wasn't adopted. The actual AK-12 weighs 7.71 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The base AK 105 which the AK 12 is modeled after, weighs 6.6 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The Bulgarian 106CR weighs just 6.1 lbs without mag and that's with the heavier AKM style carrier group. Smaller variants would be even lighter, especially if they use an AKS-74U type because those start at around 5.47 lbs with an unloaded magazine.

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/k...-ak-15-rifles/

It lists the AK-12 and AK-15 as having the same weight, but I would have thought that the AK-15 would be ever so slightly heavier due to the larger barrel diameter for the 7.62x39 round.

[RetroRevolver77]

It lists the AK-12 and AK-15 as having the same weight, but I would have thought that the AK-15 would be ever so slightly heavier due to the larger barrel diameter for the 7.62x39 round.

I figured out the weight Wiki was referencing was the AK 200 model that was supposed to be the AK-12 but then found another website that I link earlier.

[MountainRaven]

So the model Wiki references for weight is actually the older AK 200 that wasn't adopted. The actual AK-12 weighs 7.71 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The base AK 105 which the AK 12 is modeled after, weighs 6.6 lbs with an unloaded magazine. The Bulgarian 106CR weighs just 6.1 lbs without mag and that's with the heavier AKM style carrier group. Smaller variants would be even lighter, especially if they use an AKS-74U type because those start at around 5.47 lbs with an unloaded magazine.

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/k...-ak-15-rifles/

So the AK-12 doesn't weigh a quarter pound less than a legacy AK? Cool.

And obviously the road to reestablishing the USSR and finally achieving global domination and oppressing every last man, woman, and child, under the yoke of communism, is fibbing about the weight of their new rifles and claiming that it is actually slightly lighter than it really is? Who knew the KGB were so crafty?
Again, seriously?


Well they ditched the FSB entirely as well as the steel handguard retaining plate for starters, and there is also no longer a cleaning rod under the barrel. But again, I'm trying to understand just how saying that it is slightly lighter serves their "delusions of empire".

Because the AK is superior to the best weapons the decadent West can produce.

Just like the T-14 is the best. Tank. EVER.

Like the T-80 before it.

And the T-72s that slaughtered M1 and M60 tanks in Iraq.

And the Mi-24 Hind will murder the shit out of NATO troops while shrugging off cannonfire and missiles.

I don't know if you're noticing a pattern emerging here or not.

But, no, you're right. I'm sure Putin and the Russian government are paragons of virtue and truthiness.

[RetroRevolver77]

So the AK-12 doesn't weigh a quarter pound less than a legacy AK? Cool.



Because the AK is superior to the best weapons the decadent West can produce.

Just like the T-14 is the best. Tank. EVER.

Like the T-80 before it.

And the T-72s that slaughtered M1 and M60 tanks in Iraq.

And the Mi-24 Hind will murder the shit out of NATO troops while shrugging off cannonfire and missiles.

I don't know if you're noticing a pattern emerging here or not.

But, no, you're right. I'm sure Putin and the Russian government are paragons of virtue and truthiness.

The AK is the M1 Garand bolt and carrier but with an STG 44 long stroke gas piston on an STG 44 stylized frame but without a lower, all housed in the same receiver. Kalashnikov felt that the Garand was the pinnacle of perfection at the time of the war but also appreciated the advanced STG 44 for close range conflict. The AK being a hybrid of those two is designed to survive the worse combat conditions known to mankind- arctic trench warfare.

Here's Mr. Vickers discussing the Sturmgewehr STG44 that influenced the Soviet designed Kalashnikov along with almost all other assault rifles following WW II.

[Belloc]

So I post that the Russians have in fact modernized the AK, while at the same time apparently keeping the weight the same or even making it lighter, and you respond with:

Because the AK is superior to the best weapons the decadent West can produce.

Just like the T-14 is the best. Tank. EVER.

Like the T-80 before it.

And the T-72s that slaughtered M1 and M60 tanks in Iraq.

And the Mi-24 Hind will murder the shit out of NATO troops while shrugging off cannonfire and missiles.

I don't know if you're noticing a pattern emerging here or not.

But, no, you're right. I'm sure Putin and the Russian government are paragons of virtue and truthiness.

Am I seeing a pattern emerging? Yeah, you could say that...

[MountainRaven]

So I post that the Russians have in fact modernized the AK, while at the same time apparently keeping the weight the same or even making it lighter, and you respond with:


Am I seeing a pattern emerging? Yeah, you could say that...

I found your number suspect. Further digging (by another) revealed that it was, in fact, false.

As noted above, the AK-12 weighs 7.28 lbs according to Wiki.
The AK-47 weighs in at 7.7 lbs, and the AK-74M at 7.5 lbs respectively.

So among other things, the AK-12 is lighter, has a longer sight radius, the center of gravity is moved rearward, has a free-floated barrel, a rear windage adjustable peep sight, and incorporated optic and handguard rails. All of which means that the AK-12 is both lighter and modernized.

So let's start with the fact that the number you used was wrong. And then continue with you conflating my responses with another member's.

But yes, I'm the crazy one. Because I can't keep it about the facts and have to make it about you when the facts don't back me up.

Oh. Wait.

[Belloc]

But yes, I'm the crazy one.

Pretty much, yeah, and by your own admission based on your completely looney-tunes posts.

Because the AK is superior to the best weapons the decadent West can produce.

Just like the T-14 is the best. Tank. EVER.

Like the T-80 before it.

And the T-72s that slaughtered M1 and M60 tanks in Iraq.

And the Mi-24 Hind will murder the shit out of NATO troops while shrugging off cannonfire and missiles.

I don't know if you're noticing a pattern emerging here or not.

But, no, you're right. I'm sure Putin and the Russian government are paragons of virtue and truthiness.

That was nothing but a petulant histrionic juvenile rant, and you know it.

[RetroRevolver77]

So the AK-12 doesn't weigh a quarter pound less than a legacy AK? Cool.


Because the AK is superior to the best weapons the decadent West can produce.

The original AK-200 prototype- did weigh less than the actual AK-12/15 they adopted.

I wouldn't say the AK is "superior" to anything produced by Western standards- just more forgiving and durable.


RR77