Roger Stone Arrested

[HKGuns]

Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.

Yep and they can bite me.

[Averageman]

These deep staters are sending a message to trump by using these tactics against his acquaintances.

Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.

Yep and they can bite me.

I think the more clear message, at least as I interpret it, is that regardless of the power you currently have, we will get you. We will get every member of your Family that participated in your run for the Presidency, any of them that worked on your Staff and everyone even remotely associated with you.
I would guess this will be a slow burn and drag on as long as Trump IS POTUS. As soon t he leaves office, he and his are screwed.

[TomMcC]

Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.

I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.

At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.

[TomMcC]

I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.

At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.

I understand the immunity angle, but I don't really get the idea that as the investigation progresses that it might and probably will be about you. It seems that anyone new involved would see that they are in the crosshairs every bit as much as Trump and his family. Knowing this would put that person at risk of incrimination by what they say...thus plead the 5th. Just the fact that people are always at risk of a process crime would indicate a 5th plea right from the get go.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I understand the immunity angle, but I don't really get the idea that as the investigation progresses that it might and probably will be about you. It seems that anyone new involved would see that they are in the crosshairs every bit as much as Trump and his family. Knowing this would put that person at risk of incrimination by what they say...thus plead the 5th. Just the fact that people are always at risk of a process crime would indicate a 5th plea right from the get go.

Once again, we are using a legal process for a political purpose. Politically, you can’t have people claiming the 5th if you want to actually get to the bottom of something. The legal realm is about assigning guilt, not innocence- or even more importantly- getting to the truth.

We are using a screwdriver to try to hammer the truth out of something.

The SC/SP have made this mess as much as anyone by charging people with process crimes. At the very least the DOJ needs to make it clear that perjury and other process crimes are a low priority and are only relevant in relation to other charges/crimes or in extreme circumstances. Leave it in the report that people were not forthwith with the prosecutor- and let them reap the political repercussions.

It is truly sickening to look at the Plame affair to the Clinton email to the ‘Collusion’ to see why the SC/SP is so warping to our legal and political system-and how with out a SC/SP you ‘get away’ with so much more. Who cares if Clinton wasn’t guilty of any email badness- it is pretty clear that Trump isn’t guilty of collusion- Huma was guilty of obstruction and perjury by the Mueller standard.

I really hope the dems and the DOJ understand how closely people are watching this, and how close they have to delegitimization of their authority.

[flenna]

I really hope the dems and the DOJ understand how closely people are watching this, and how close they have to delegitimization of their authority.

Really? The DOJ and Dems do not care one bit about how "deligitimate" their authority is or appears to be. This is about hammering the non-conformers into submission. This is about taking the power from the people. This is a coup and there is nothing we can do about it.

[ThirdWatcher]

Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.

I have wondered the same thing. On the very few times I’ve been mirandized I lawyered up.

[glocktogo]

I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.

At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.

Observing the politics of this investigation, if I were any of these people, I wouldn’t sign an immunity agreement and I’d rather be jailed for having the worst memory in the world and saying “I don’t remember”, than allowing them to entrap me for a ridiculous process crime.

[TomMcC]

Observing the politics of this investigation, if I were any of these people, I wouldn’t sign an immunity agreement and I’d rather be jailed for having the worst memory in the world and saying “I don’t remember”, than allowing them to entrap me for a ridiculous process crime.

Anyone with have a brain has got to figure that if they talk to any of these people they have a good chance of being nailed with a process crime. Is it hubris or are they scared into it...I don't know.