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Thread: Franklin Armory blacklists InRangeTV at SHOT Show 2019

  1. #11
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    Yeah it likely will be on Forgotten Weapons.

    I wonder if a rifled muzzle device could be screwed on to the Reformation...not permanently attached of course. Kind of like a rifled choke tube with the twist direction aligned to not unscrew it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle_10 View Post
    I think the InRange guys' objection to the Reformation and the Shockwave were not that they exist, because I recall them saying they get the whole idea of giving a finger to the NFA, but that the manufacturers of those products were trying to pass them off as being something other than just simple NFA workarounds. As though their NFA-skirting quirks somehow made them superior to other, more conventional options for practical purposes. Mossberg was basically describing the Shockwave as like the "ultimate home defense weapon" for women or something. And Franklin Armory was practically portraying the Reformation and it's Nerf bullets as the next great leap in kinetic energy projectile technology.
    Something about the Shockwave did seem to rankle Ian (The milder mannered, long haired guy) in particular though. As I recall comments made by Karl (Who is usually the bigger jackass of the two) later that even he was caught off guard by the way the normally laid back Ian went after the Mossberg rep.
    To be fair to the companies though, I suppose it's probably a smart move to at least try and portray these products as having some kind of purpose beyond "Get bent, NFA" because while there's nothing illegal about that, it is in their best interests to maintain good relations with the ATF.


    The reason why these guns are portrayed as legitimate self defense firearms is to get the leftist political machine off their back for exploiting a loophole in the law.

    Everyone knows the shockwave isn’t an ideal defensive weapon. Every the Mossberg rep knows it. These two fools are too stupid to clue in on this. Like I said, cant read in between the lines.

    Furthermore....

    What happens when somebody makes a working and pratical sabot flechette firing gun similar to the reformation? Then what? That is the whole point of that thing. These two idiots missed that point.

    I also take objection to the fact they act like dickheads at an industry show. Their industry credentials are dubious. Most of the guns they feature on YouTube they don’t own, they are loaned. This is a huge pet peave of mine when one of these YouTube “experts” comes along to tell some multimillionaire in the gun industry how shit is done.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    This is a huge pet peave of mine when one of these YouTube “experts” comes along to tell some multimillionaire in the gun industry how shit is done.
    The other side of that is (if my understanding is correct at least) is that things like the Shockwave and the SB Tactical brace were not the ideas of multimillionaires in the gun industry. For certain, the established industry had decades to come up with the idea, but were more concerned catering to their minority customer (1/4 to 1/3 of sales at any given time) which is also trying to delete the largest part of their customer base.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    The reason why these guns are portrayed as legitimate self defense firearms is to get the leftist political machine off their back for exploiting a loophole in the law.

    Everyone knows the shockwave isn’t an ideal defensive weapon. Every the Mossberg rep knows it. These two fools are too stupid to clue in on this. Like I said, cant read in between the lines.

    Furthermore....

    What happens when somebody makes a working and pratical sabot flechette firing gun similar to the reformation? Then what? That is the whole point of that thing. These two idiots missed that point.

    I also take objection to the fact they act like dickheads at an industry show. Their industry credentials are dubious. Most of the guns they feature on YouTube they don’t own, they are loaned. This is a huge pet peave of mine when one of these YouTube “experts” comes along to tell some multimillionaire in the gun industry how shit is done.
    1. I don't think saying a gun is designed to kill bad guys is an effective way to get banners off their back.

    2. The guys at InRange absolutely know why these guns are being made, they are just calling out manufacturers on their BS.

    The NFA sucks, but so does the reformation, the shockwave, the tac14, etc.

    Did you even watch the reformation video? That rep was a joke. Uh uh uh, tanks. yeah, tanks do this, so it makes sense. Because tanks. Abrams. Tanks.

    Ian even asks why it's better than a brace. Spoiler, it aint.

  5. #15
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    Mossberg was so unconvinced about the merits of the Shockwave as the ultimate defensive weapon that they didn't get Clint Smith to demonstrate its usefulness as a defensive arm.

    Oh wait.



    ETA: It's 2019 and people are still buying Taurus Judges because that little 410 shotgun shell they wouldn't shoot a one pound bird with is a rill man-stoppah. A significant portion of the gun-buying public isn't smart enough to, "read between the lines," when it comes to buying a KSG or a Judge or a Shockwave, never mind when a company legitimately pushes for their latest and greatest FU-NFA toy as being the ultimate defensive arm - as Mossberg did with the Shockwave.

    Hell, if Mossberg had started with the pistol-braced Shockwave, nobody would have batted an eye at it. (Except the guys who still insist that pistol braces are for mom's basement dwelling neckbeards, but they were never going to be convinced, anyway.)

    I think the companies involved might have been better served by just saying, "We did it because we could, because this is America, and why the hell not?" Instead of saying (as they have), "These are the most innovative tactical dynamic kinetic energy delivery systems since the invention of the fin-stabilized discarding-sabot. IT'S NERF OR NOTHING."
    Last edited by MountainRaven; 01-27-19 at 00:38.
    " Political tags — such as [...], communist, democrat, [...], fascist, liberal, conservative, [...] — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort. "
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    I came across “in range” a few months ago on YouTube. I have a hard time getting through most of their videos. They seem like arogant dorks from the high school AV club.

    This Ian character is especially off putting. He has a very obvious condescending tone and is clearly trying to make this guy look foolish.

    The first video I ever saw with this guy was a Forgotten Weapons with Larry Vickers. I had never seen him before but my first thought was that Larry looked uncomfortable with him and kind of wanted to give him a wedgie.
    "A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Ty Webb

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldState View Post
    I came across “in range” a few months ago on YouTube. I have a hard time getting through most of their videos. They seem like arogant dorks from the high school AV club.

    This Ian character is especially off putting. He has a very obvious condescending tone and is clearly trying to make this guy look foolish.

    The first video I ever saw with this guy was a Forgotten Weapons with Larry Vickers. I had never seen him before but my first thought was that Larry looked uncomfortable with him and kind of wanted to give him a wedgie.
    Agree with everything above 100%. Also to include the M1 Carbine Hackathorn video.

    But you know something? Ian knows his stuff and despite not personally liking the guy, he's worth listening to/learning from.

  8. #18
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    Franklin Armory makes toys. Toys like bumpstocks bring a lot of negative attention our way. I like "braces" and they have actual, practical use but if companies keep promoting toys, braces will go away too. In Range and Forgotten Weapons have a wealth of knowledge, produce good content, and rightfully call out derp, which is about 50% of the crap marketed at SHOT show.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  9. #19
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    I don't particularly give a rip how these guys come off on their U-Tube channel. They are using their time to promote firearms in a positive manner, which is good for all of us. Not only do you learn a bit about this history of firearms, you learn a bit about history in general.

    Yet another example of people in this community eating their own. #doomed You don't see the idiots on the left acting like some of ya'll.

    Lighten - the - frick -up Francine's.

    ETA: I really wish there were like buttons on posts. Would save me some typing sometimes.
    Last edited by HKGuns; 01-27-19 at 14:08.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcnabb100 View Post
    1. I don't think saying a gun is designed to kill bad guys is an effective way to get banners off their back.

    2. The guys at InRange absolutely know why these guns are being made, they are just calling out manufacturers on their BS.

    The NFA sucks, but so does the reformation, the shockwave, the tac14, etc.

    Did you even watch the reformation video? That rep was a joke. Uh uh uh, tanks. yeah, tanks do this, so it makes sense. Because tanks. Abrams. Tanks.

    Ian even asks why it's better than a brace. Spoiler, it aint.

    Yes I did watch the video. Yes it uses similar technology as a smooth bore tank gun.

    Yes their recording of a conversation with the lens closed on their camera is unethical.

    A practical workable flechette firing gun would be much more usesful than a brace.

    A pistol brace can be taken away just like a bumpstock with a decree that they are illegal.
    Last edited by scottryan; 01-27-19 at 14:14.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

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