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Thread: Franklin Armory blacklists InRangeTV at SHOT Show 2019

  1. #41
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    This is funny because I’m watching a Forgotten Weapons video on YT right now. I’m still subscribed and obviously still watch FW and InRange videos. While they are quirky and odd, I like their videos. They are usually informative or entertaining.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    What country bans semi-automatic firearms but allows centerfire smooth-bore semi-automatic firearms?

    I'm sure this will be a big seller with the wealthy Shockwave/Judge/Hi-Point owner demographic. If the ammo ever gets cheap enough.


    You need to go back up and re-read.

    My post was in response to the Providence, not Reformation.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  3. #43
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    Well since everyone else has an opinion...

    The InRange guys can definitely be a bit douchey. I did enjoy the Larry Vikers/Kalashnikov video very much though.

    The Franklin Armory stuff is silly for sure. But I'd rather bash (and try to abolish) the ATF instead of American firearm manufacturers.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    What country bans semi-automatic firearms but allows centerfire smooth-bore semi-automatic firearms?
    The United Kingdom

    ALL centerfire semi automatic rifles are banned there, but semi automatic shotguns (smoothbores) are still available to licensed individuals.

    I personally don't care about ANY of this drama but I figured you would be interested in an answer to your question.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    The United Kingdom

    ALL centerfire semi automatic rifles are banned there, but semi automatic shotguns (smoothbores) are still available to licensed individuals.

    I personally don't care about ANY of this drama but I figured you would be interested in an answer to your question.
    I have to admit to not being entirely up on gun laws in the UK, but I do not believe that the Reformation would be legal there.

    First, UK laws define a shotgun as possessing a barrel longer than 24 inches (which the Reformation does not possess) and second because said shotguns cannot have a detachable magazine and may have a fixed magazine that holds no more than two rounds. Thirdly, while a shotgun certificate is sufficient to purchase shotshells, slugs and other single-projectile ammunition requires a more difficult to acquire certificate - a much more difficult to acquire certificate.

    I know there are plenty of rimfires and over/under, side-by-side, mag-fed shotguns with fixed two-round magazines in circulation in the UK, anything more... "advanced" is practically impossible to acquire, due to the difficulty in acquiring the necessary permit(s).
    " Political tags such as [...], communist, democrat, [...], fascist, liberal, conservative, [...] are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort. "
    - Robert Heinlein -

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    I have to admit to not being entirely up on gun laws in the UK, but I do not believe that the Reformation would be legal there.

    First, UK laws define a shotgun as possessing a barrel longer than 24 inches (which the Reformation does not possess) and second because said shotguns cannot have a detachable magazine and may have a fixed magazine that holds no more than two rounds. Thirdly, while a shotgun certificate is sufficient to purchase shotshells, slugs and other single-projectile ammunition requires a more difficult to acquire certificate - a much more difficult to acquire certificate.

    I know there are plenty of rimfires and over/under, side-by-side, mag-fed shotguns with fixed two-round magazines in circulation in the UK, anything more... "advanced" is practically impossible to acquire, due to the difficulty in acquiring the necessary permit(s).
    While you're correct in that this "thing" would not fly under a SGC in the UK, it will fall under the class of firearms accessible under a firearms certificate. There are more than enough people in the UK with FACs to kinda disprove your point that getting one is "practically impossible"

    Anyway, I don't GAF that much

  7. #47
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    I enjoy most of the videos done by InRange and Forgotten Weapons. I don't always agree with their positions. The pistol grip only "shotguns" are an example. If you take the position that they are ideal, then no, they are a failure. They are a niche weapon for limited space, close distances. Many years ago I was shooting at a two gun match, handgun and shotgun. One guy had a pistol grip only, regular 18" barrel. Let's just say my thoughts weren't very complimentary, but he surprised me. He held it out away from his face so he didn't eat it, he sighted down the barrel, not hip shooting. He wasn't quite as fast as most with a conventional shotgun with a buttstock, but he did ok and much better than I anticipated. A couple of years ago, I watched Clint Smith's video and he did an excellent job of demonstrating how it could be used. When Ian and Karl did their video, my recollection was that they either deliberately, or through ignorance, did most things wrong with the Shockwave. The main error, in my opinion, was continuously comparing it to a conventionally stocked shotgun. No one, not even those who like the little things, think they are as useful as a full size shotty. But a full size won't fit in a tight storage area, or a duffel bag, etc. Think niche, not general purpose. Anyway, there are other things I disagree with, but in the main, I think they are good. Their match videos are good reviews on what worked well and what didn't. And there is always something that could have been done better. I'll have to watch the Franklin Armory video again, but I generally shared their opinion. If the gun was designed and built to be used in places where a conventional rifle cannot, then that should have been stated from the beginning. I have friends who are bashing the new G43x and G48. They are too big for pocket guns, bigger than the Sig P365, the G48 is a deficient G19, etc. While I don't have a use for either one (at this time), they do make a lot of sense for states and countries where there is a 10rd mag limit. They are much more comfortable to shoot than the stubby G26 (at least for me), and the thinner size does conceal better than a G19. I understand someone not wanting to carry a G19 sized for a 15rd mag when they are limited to 10. Shrink the gun and make it more efficient. Anyway, I usually disagree with Ian and Karl when they don't recognize the niche aspect for a particular gun.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsai View Post
    I enjoy most of the videos done by InRange and Forgotten Weapons. I don't always agree with their positions. The pistol grip only "shotguns" are an example. If you take the position that they are ideal, then no, they are a failure. They are a niche weapon for limited space, close distances. Many years ago I was shooting at a two gun match, handgun and shotgun. One guy had a pistol grip only, regular 18" barrel. Let's just say my thoughts weren't very complimentary, but he surprised me. He held it out away from his face so he didn't eat it, he sighted down the barrel, not hip shooting. He wasn't quite as fast as most with a conventional shotgun with a buttstock, but he did ok and much better than I anticipated. A couple of years ago, I watched Clint Smith's video and he did an excellent job of demonstrating how it could be used. When Ian and Karl did their video, my recollection was that they either deliberately, or through ignorance, did most things wrong with the Shockwave. The main error, in my opinion, was continuously comparing it to a conventionally stocked shotgun. No one, not even those who like the little things, think they are as useful as a full size shotty. But a full size won't fit in a tight storage area, or a duffel bag, etc. Think niche, not general purpose. Anyway, there are other things I disagree with, but in the main, I think they are good. Their match videos are good reviews on what worked well and what didn't. And there is always something that could have been done better. I'll have to watch the Franklin Armory video again, but I generally shared their opinion. If the gun was designed and built to be used in places where a conventional rifle cannot, then that should have been stated from the beginning. I have friends who are bashing the new G43x and G48. They are too big for pocket guns, bigger than the Sig P365, the G48 is a deficient G19, etc. While I don't have a use for either one (at this time), they do make a lot of sense for states and countries where there is a 10rd mag limit. They are much more comfortable to shoot than the stubby G26 (at least for me), and the thinner size does conceal better than a G19. I understand someone not wanting to carry a G19 sized for a 15rd mag when they are limited to 10. Shrink the gun and make it more efficient. Anyway, I usually disagree with Ian and Karl when they don't recognize the niche aspect for a particular gun.
    You and I have a mutual friend that is very, very skilled with a Witness Protection shotgun.

  9. #49
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    I think the genesis of that shotgun video was the Mossberg rep describing the Shockwave as an ideal home defense weapon, along with repeating tired old fallacies like "you don't have to aim" with a shotgun.
    If I remember the InRange pistol grip shotgun video correctly, they stated that a stockless shotgun isn't useless, but is best suited for someone with real expertise in it's use, and that for most people a stocked shotgun is going to be vastly superior to a stockless one in pretty much any scenario.
    The video conclusions start at 32:06
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ

    Also noteworthy is that Karl says right in the video that Ian was too hard on the Mossberg lady...
    Last edited by Circle_10; 02-07-19 at 07:58.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle_10 View Post
    I think the genesis of that shotgun video was the Mossberg rep describing the Shockwave as an ideal home defense weapon, along with repeating tired old fallacies like "you don't have to aim" with a shotgun.

    That is called marketing bullshit.

    Everyone knows its bullshit including the Mossberg lady.

    What did you expect her to say?

    "We came out with this product to skirt the NFA and sell short shotguns to people"

    How do you think that is going to be twisted when the liberal media gets ahold of a soundbite like that? And runs a 60 Minutes episode about how Mossberg is selling "sawed off shotguns" and "exploiting a loophole in the law."
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

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