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Thread: War, Children, Is Just a Shot Away....with China

  1. #1
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    War, Children, Is Just a Shot Away....with China

    Or is it?



    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...just-shot-away

    The new currency war began in January 2010 with efforts of the Obama administration to promote U.S. growth with a weak dollar. By August 2011, the U.S. dollar reached an all-time low on the Fed’s broad real index.

    Other nations retaliated, and the period of the “cheap dollar” was followed by the “cheap euro” and “cheap yuan” after 2012.

    Once again, currency wars proved to be a dead end.

    Now the trade wars are well underway. They may be set to resume once the current “truce” between the U.S. and China expires on March 1. If no deal is reached, massive new tariffs will likely take effect.

    But the biggest question now is if a shooting war will follow.
    There’s little doubt that the most dangerous place in the world today in terms of potential war has been the South China Sea.

    I have written frequently about possible confrontations between the U.S. and China in the South China Sea. International law recognizes claims of six separate nations to parts of that sea, and the U.S. is treaty partners with one of them (the Philippines).

    China claims the entire sea (except for a narrow shoreline stretch near each surrounding country). China is claiming control based on ancient imperial arrangements and argues that the West and its South Asian allies “stole” the territory from them.

    China has aggressively built up man-made islands in the area by dredging sand onto rocks and atolls. These islands are then being fortified with airstrips, anti-aircraft weapons and surveillance technology.

    But both the ancient claims and the theft narrative are open to serious dispute. The U.S. and the other nations involved reject those claims and insist on rights of passage and free navigation and sharing of natural resources such as oil, natural gas, undersea mining and seafood among others.

    The U.S. and its allies, including Japan and the U.K., have sent naval vessels to cruise waters claimed by China and to uphold rights of passage and their status as open waters.
    An even greater potential conflict lies in the Strait of Taiwan, which separates the island of Formosa from the mainland of Red China. China claims Taiwan as a “breakaway province” and part of China. The Taiwanese government claims that it is the lawful government of all of China, although there is a strong independence movement there also.

    Two U.S. warships recently passed through the strait as a reaffirmation of rights of free passage and a show of support for Taiwan.

    China regards the passage of U.S. vessels as highly provocative and has threatened to block such transits with force. The South China Sea is a problem, but the Taiwan Strait is viewed in existential terms by China.
    The entire situation is like a powder keg waiting for the match to light it. The risks include not only intentional combat but accidental shootings and collisions, which are not uncommon at sea, especially when two vessels are shadowing each other.

    In fact, the greatest risk might not be an outright attack by either side but an accident or miscommunication that escalates into a firefight. We cannot avoid the real possibility that conflicting naval activities in both bodies of water will result in a violent incident or even war. And once an incident occurs, it could set off a chain of escalation that could result in open warfare.
    Trump is not someone to back down when it comes to American interests around the world, and Chinese leadership does not want to appear weak before the U.S.

    That’s especially true at a time of great economic uncertainty. Communist Party leadership is desperate to maintain the support of the people, or else it risks losing the “mandate of heaven.”

    China does not want war at this time. But diverting the people’s attention away from domestic problems toward a foreign foe is an old trick leaders use to unite the people in times of uncertainty. Rallying the people around the flag is a tried and true method to garner support.

    If China’s leadership decides that the risk of losing legitimacy at home outweighs the risk of conflict with the United States, the likelihood of war rises dramatically.

    I’m not predicting it, but wars have started over less. Currency wars, trade wars, finally shooting wars. We’re currently two-thirds of the way there.
    My take: Not gonna happen. China and the US are too economically intertwined. If we go to war with China Wal-Mart's shelves will be empty and billions of unemployed Chinese will revolt. Not gonna happen.

    What say you?

  2. #2
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    I would agree.
    The economic bond between us means we have reached an economic "MAD" situation. Creating mutually beneficial trade agreements to both of our advantages means we could possibly squeeze out most other world players long term.
    The EU and Russia should be very concerned if we come to such an agreement.

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    It's in neither our or China's best interest to start a war with the other, and we both know it. Unless one side or the other makes a military move to actually seize land, trade routes, or resources that will cripple the other, neither side is going to start a full scale war. Even if it did happen, as much as we like to do the whole "we're ****ed" and "our military ain't what it used to be..." self-pity parties, we're still the most powerful military in the world. Our technology and force projection capabilities still are way ahead of China's. Either way, the Chinese Communist Party can't be trusted with much, but they can be trusted to do what they feel is in their best interests. Starting a war with the (still) most powerful nation on Earth is obviously not that.

    My biggest concerns right now are on the home front, and with Iran. Iran is a very powerful country with one of the largest armies in the world, and they're positioning themselves to go to war with Israel. Also, being Islamic extremists, they can't be trusted to do what's truly in their best interests, because they believe destroying the Jews in the name of Allah is their holy duty and, thus, in their best interests.
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.-Ben Franklin

    there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.-Samwise Gamgee

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    The short answer is "no.". The longer one is "hell, no".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoringGuy45 View Post
    It's in neither our or China's best interest to start a war with the other, and we both know it. Unless one side or the other makes a military move to actually seize land, trade routes, or resources that will cripple the other, neither side is going to start a full scale war. Even if it did happen, as much as we like to do the whole "we're ****ed" and "our military ain't what it used to be..." self-pity parties, we're still the most powerful military in the world. Our technology and force projection capabilities still are way ahead of China's. Either way, the Chinese Communist Party can't be trusted with much, but they can be trusted to do what they feel is in their best interests. Starting a war with the (still) most powerful nation on Earth is obviously not that.

    My biggest concerns right now are on the home front, and with Iran. Iran is a very powerful country with one of the largest armies in the world, and they're positioning themselves to go to war with Israel. Also, being Islamic extremists, they can't be trusted to do what's truly in their best interests, because they believe destroying the Jews in the name of Allah is their holy duty and, thus, in their best interests.
    I'm not concerned about a shooting war within the next 10 years, but within 10 years China will realistically be able to overtake Taiwan by force. That's going to change the dynamics on a lot of fronts. If they're able to pull off "Made in China 2025" and "Belts and Roads" in some semblance of what they've planned, then coupled with their military capability, that will be a true nightmare for us. China doesn't have to be the largest economy (though it probably will be) or the most powerful country militarily (which they're not trying to be). They just have to be a country that other countries will seriously think twice about pissing off.

    As for Iran, some of its people might like to wipe Israel off the map, but I'm not convinced that Israel is anything more than a convenient scapegoat/distraction for the regime.

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    Not gonna happen. More likely China will collapse much like Soviet Union did within our lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Not gonna happen. More likely China will collapse much like Soviet Union did within our lifetime.
    This.

    China might try one last hurrah but it is as over reliant on export and they can’t play cheap labor forever. Plus I figure another Tiannemen will happen.

    If North Korea falls it will be essentially 1991 all over again.

    Ain’t skeered

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    I assume there are factions in Chinese politics and despite their insistence on one leader, it must require consensus to attack the world’s lone hyperpower.

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    All it will take is a change from the petro dollar to the petro yuan. Isn’t China heavily invested in Venezuela?
    “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson.

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