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Thread: 6,8 SPC and 6.5 Gredel

  1. #21
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    I chose 6.8spec a few times over the 6.5 grendel.

    When i was doing research, the 6.8 was much easier to get. Idk how it is now but I have Gold Dots stacked pretty deep for it.

    Edit** i forgot to mention that a big part of the decision had to do with the my trust in ar15performance products.

    I have several of his bolts and barrels they are awesome
    Last edited by Swstock; 02-24-19 at 20:27.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Mad Dog Weapons Systems is working with manufacturers to make a receiver set and metal magazine(s) that will allow for a cartridge OAL of 2.390"

    It sounds like mags will be available for both 6.5 and 6.8 and should work for Wildcats based on these cartridges too.

    The receiver sets will be based off the LWRC Six8 and will likely be similar to the Sulzer option.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    I wonder if Grendel can get anything out of the ~ .13” potential COAL increase.
    RLTW

    “That is why there isn't an AK chart.” -SteyrAUG

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I wonder if Grendel can get anything out of the ~ .13” potential COAL increase.
    Maybe. Will the slight increase in OAL allow for a bullet heavier than 140gr?

    If nothing else it should give a slight increase in powder capacity.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Tokarev; 02-25-19 at 08:14.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Maybe. Will the slight increase in OAL allow for a bullet heavier than 140gr?

    If nothing else it should give a slight increase in powder capacity.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Most of the Grendel bullets are already close to the lands. You can't load out longer or gain powder capacity or velocity if the OAL is limited by the location of the freebore.
    The only way the long load mags will improve performance is IF new chambers are designed with longer freebore to allow loading longer.
    Even at that 1 extra gr of powder may get another 40fps if the pressure is the same. Say a normal Grendel is loaded to 52000 psi, then you load a Grendel with a long OAL to 52000 that extra gr of powder will only increase vel about 40 fps. Anyone who has Quickload can show you the difference.

    People hype "new" cartridge performance claims by comparing factory ammo performance which may be 46000psi to handloaded ammo loaded to 52-54000psi and say "see what I did, created a new cartridge that is much faster" when all they really did was increase the pressure the round is loaded to. An extra 3500-5000psi will get you another 100fps.
    AR15performance 68forums
    The 6.8 is the best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    Most of the Grendel bullets are already close to the lands. You can't load out longer or gain powder capacity or velocity if the OAL is limited by the location of the freebore.
    The only way the long load mags will improve performance is IF new chambers are designed with longer freebore to allow loading longer.
    Even at that 1 extra gr of powder may get another 40fps if the pressure is the same. Say a normal Grendel is loaded to 52000 psi, then you load a Grendel with a long OAL to 52000 that extra gr of powder will only increase vel about 40 fps. Anyone who has Quickload can show you the difference.

    People hype "new" cartridge performance claims by comparing factory ammo performance which may be 46000psi to handloaded ammo loaded to 52-54000psi and say "see what I did, created a new cartridge that is much faster" when all they really did was increase the pressure the round is loaded to. An extra 3500-5000psi will get you another 100fps.
    Sounds like pretty much the claims of increased performance for the 6.8 SPC II chamber. I think it was Western Powders that worked up loads in a SAAMI chamber then reworked the loads for a SPC II chamber. The gains in performance were small enough to be really nothing more than academic.

    With all that said, the "stretch" mag well (if the idea catches on) will no doubt result in new barrels that are built to make use of the longer COAL.

    At this point my interest in a longer mag would likely be to make use of 80 and 90 grain bullets in a 223 Remington. Could a 90 grain bullet loaded to 2.39" to pushed to about 2600 fps in a 223?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Tokarev; 02-25-19 at 09:11.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Sounds like pretty much the claims of increased performance for the 6.8 SPC II chamber. I think it was Western Powders that worked up loads in a SAAMI chamber then reworked the loads for a SPC II chamber. The gains in performance were small enough to be really nothing more than academic.

    With all that said, the "stretch" mag well (if the idea catches on) will no doubt result in new barrels that are built to make use of the longer COAL.

    At this point my interest in a longer mag would likely be to make use of 80 and 90 grain bullets in a 223 Remington. Could a 90 grain bullet loaded to 2.39" to pushed to about 2600 fps in a 223?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Kind of like the claims that the WLV is almost as fast as a 6.8. Compare a WLV loaded to 58k and a 6.8 loaded to 58K.

    The SPC had bullets JAMMED into the lands and the copper plated bullets were deforming in the cone causing a pressure spike so they had to download to keep safe pressures. The spcii lengthened the freebore and angled the cone allowing them to load the cartridges back up to 54k and get more velocity. Run the 6.8 up to 60k like they are with the WLV and it will push a 110gr to 2800 out of a 16" barrel.

    Not a chance that a 5.56 will push a 90 to 2600 unless you use a 34" barrel.
    AR15performance 68forums
    The 6.8 is the best choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by constructor View Post
    Kind of like the claims that the WLV is almost as fast as a 6.8. Compare a WLV loaded to 58k and a 6.8 loaded to 58K.

    The SPC had bullets JAMMED into the lands and the copper plated bullets were deforming in the cone causing a pressure spike so they had to download to keep safe pressures. The spcii lengthened the freebore and angled the cone allowing them to load the cartridges back up to 54k and get more velocity. Run the 6.8 up to 60k like they are with the WLV and it will push a 110gr to 2800 out of a 16" barrel.

    Not a chance that a 5.56 will push a 90 to 2600 unless you use a 34" barrel.
    Sorry. Didn't mean to touch a nerve there.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  8. #28
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    I can't speak to specific numbers like Constructor, but I have full faith in the 6.8 as a deer rifle after taking many bucks with it. I like the cartridge and it's capabilities, but I'm not trying to replace/eclipse 5.56, which seems to be the prevalent assumption among many 6.8 skeptics. I've had mine for several years, and hand load for it. It's not hard to reload for, and you can find the lighter range of .277 diameter/ .270 Winchester bullets lots of places. I have a ton of NOS bullets waiting to be loaded, from when they were only used by .270 WIN hand loaders.

    Just my opinion, but I really don't see a point to the 6.8 vs. Grendel debate. One is a deer/GP cartridge that does well in that role, while the other is largely a target cartridge that does well in its own role. Why compare apples to oranges?
    Everything I ever needed to know about islam I learned on September 11th...

  9. #29
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    Here's something I pulled off Hodgdon's website. 90gr Sierra Match King loaded to 2.38" OAL. 24" barrel.

    Not 2,600 fps but close.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatEgan View Post
    I can't speak to specific numbers like Constructor, but I have full faith in the 6.8 as a deer rifle after taking many bucks with it. I like the cartridge and it's capabilities, but I'm not trying to replace/eclipse 5.56, which seems to be the prevalent assumption among many 6.8 skeptics. I've had mine for several years, and hand load for it. It's not hard to reload for, and you can find the lighter range of .277 diameter/ .270 Winchester bullets lots of places. I have a ton of NOS bullets waiting to be loaded, from when they were only used by .270 WIN hand loaders.

    Just my opinion, but I really don't see a point to the 6.8 vs. Grendel debate. One is a deer/GP cartridge that does well in that role, while the other is largely a target cartridge that does well in its own role. Why compare apples to oranges?
    I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the 6.5 Grendel is largely a target round. Yes, the Grendel's origins can be traced back to target shooting, but it is also an excellent hunting round with .308 class performance. Game of all sizes from prairie dogs to elk can be taken with the Grendel at ranges beyond what the 6.8 SPC can do. In 2007 Mark LaRue took down a bull elk at 400 yards using an AR chambered in 6.5 Grendel. The success of that hunt is what convinced him to start selling rifles chambered in 6.5 Grendel.
    “Christianity without discipleship is always Christianity without Christ.”
    -Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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