Firearm Platforms That Never Made Any Sense To You...

[mack7.62]

Black Rifle Coffee has them beat with the M61 Prius:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzLNC-strf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aflx7nRZuRY

Can you say "Arms Race".

Ten pages into a thread titled Firearm Platforms That Never Made Any Sense To You... and not one post is about a firearm platform.

Let me start with The MagPul Microbus-



It has charm, it's cool in a California Beach Bum kinda way, but it lacks even the thinnest armor. Even a Humvee would be a more practical choice to mount a minigun to.

To be fair, it is intended to be an attention getting publicity stunt and no other firearm platform has a Hula Girl armed with an AR on its dash

[SteyrAUG]

To quote Ricky Bobby, "If you ain't first, your last. "

Sure. And I think that is why most of us would go with an AR first. But lots of people dead because of AKs and it isn't because they can do fast mag changes. Skill in ambush is probably way more important than ease of mag changes as are many other factors.

How you carry and access spare magazines is probably more important than how magazines on the rifle are removed.

And just so we are on the same page, I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't already know. I'm not trying to contradict or dispute your experience.

[SteyrAUG]

Well first off manipulating the safety. If you have to do quick on and off for work it is awkward. I have probably the longest hands on the whole of M4C unless Manute Bol still posts here. And still had to do a work around.

The gun IS smooth on auto', but coukd be hard to mount optics for. You either went irons or you used an ARMS mount. The stock came in only two flavors: Fixed or Military. Fixed was fine for me as I am larger but the military stock was uncomfortable. There are more options now but not in the day.

Mag changes a little awkward. You gotta use the flapper. If the button was a liiiittle closer it wouldnt be so bad.

They also could be ammo picky but then again these were early 80s guns c. early 00s

And cleaning was a chore, to me anyways. I dont mind as much with my HK 91 because everything is larger but scaled to 9mm its a chore esp if you have to clean it. The weight is good and bad alomg with diopter sights. Good and bad.

They are cool looking and you feel like a stormtrooper with one. But when you actually are responsible for one, they become less fun.

Not saying it was "bad" in the cosmic sense like an UZI or something. Just thst there were days when I was cussing over an MP5.

Contrariwise, the Colt was just like an AR only 9mm but the magazines could be problematic.

Unpopular opinions but just my deal.

The plastic SEF trigger group was absolutely 100% a pain in the ass and required actually force to click into different positions. For this reason I always used a metal SEF trigger group (similar to the 90 series but push pin) and never really had any problems. I know guys who also popped out the selector lever and ground that detent down a little bit. When in low ready I kept my thumb on the selector and would manipulate it as I drew it to my shoulder and it was never a problem. My MP5 stayed on E or F until the shooting was done "for sure."

I never treated the MP5 like it was an AR. I used only the flapper magazine and pushed it into the magazine with my thumb while giving the magazine a slight tug, my hand was on the replacement magazine before the dumped one hit the ground in most cases. This was really only a problem if you were running a HK 94 and then you had to use your left hand index finger to push the magazine release button while holding the magazine.

The collapsible stock was one of the worst stocks on the planet, added lots of weight and had a horrible cheek weld that was only surpassed by the Uzi and underfolder AKs. I always ran an fixed stock.

Cleaning was detailed because you couldn't flip it open like an AR. But I remember some guys who simply soaked their guns in a 5 gallon bucket of mineral spirits for 10 minutes, fired a 5 round burst and called them "clean." Of course those SWAT guys didn't have to come out of pocket for their MP5s.

The Uzi was the king of SMGs until the MP5 came along. First shot placement changed everything. I can also comfortably use a Colt SMG. My biggest problem is magazine changes (for me) aren't as fast as 90% of my personal experience is with the MP5. The magazines kind of suck and if you drop them on a hard surface they will spill ammo. The sights on the Colt SMG were pretty terrible as they were A1 rather than A2. That said, I always wanted and still want a DOE model.

One thing you forgot about the MP5 is the sling options were terrible. That 3 position mouse trap was horrible. We always had to build our own slings with the HK hook until better options started being offered by Blackhawk and such, and even then that front sling attachment point is in a terrible position if you need to run the charging handle fast. As soon as single point slings were available we all went to that.

[ramairthree]

A lot of these arguments against different platforms were not an issue an issue in their heyday.

Something reliable and reasonably accurate with the unit or department footing the bill for expensive magazines and parts.

Now, with a ton of civilian ownership, cost, ease of maintenance, availability of parts, magazines, etc. are bigger factors.

And with training, evolution of tactics, gear, and accessories, the speed of manual of arms, ergonomics, efficiency, etc. have allowed some to rise while others fall by the wayside.

A 1972 Javelin AMX with 4 speed manual transmission and a 401 was something to contend with in a road/TA type course 30 or 40 years ago. And still fun ass hell.

But a ginormous new Hemi Challenger with auto transmission would crush it, let alone some lighter, smaller new cars that would crush that.

The AMX, like many legacy platforms has fallen by the wayside, just like an Uzi or HK is not going to be a winning platform in USPSA PCC or 3 gun. Other stuff has risen to dominate.

No reason to hate them or not own, use, and enjoy them.

[SteyrAUG]

The AMX, like many legacy platforms has fallen by the wayside, just like an Uzi or HK is not going to be a winning platform in USPSA PCC or 3 gun. Other stuff has risen to dominate.

No reason to hate them or not own, use, and enjoy them.

Interestingly enough, at Knob Creek MG shoots M-10s w/ Lage uppers win all the time. Part of that is probably because they are the most common entry level SMG. But they are hardly the cutting edge of modern PCC/SMG platforms.

[1168]

I forgot how much the three point sling on the MP5 sucked. Thanks for the reminder, SteyrAug.

[SteyrAUG]

I forgot how much the three point sling on the MP5 sucked. Thanks for the reminder, SteyrAug.

If Vickers Tac Slings were available in 1990 I probably could have sold them for $100 each.

[docsherm]

A lot of these arguments against different platforms were not an issue an issue in their heyday.

Something reliable and reasonably accurate with the unit or department footing the bill for expensive magazines and parts.

Now, with a ton of civilian ownership, cost, ease of maintenance, availability of parts, magazines, etc. are bigger factors.

And with training, evolution of tactics, gear, and accessories, the speed of manual of arms, ergonomics, efficiency, etc. have allowed some to rise while others fall by the wayside.

A 1972 Javelin AMX with 4 speed manual transmission and a 401 was something to contend with in a road/TA type course 30 or 40 years ago. And still fun ass hell.

But a ginormous new Hemi Challenger with auto transmission would crush it, let alone some lighter, smaller new cars that would crush that.

The AMX, like many legacy platforms has fallen by the wayside, just like an Uzi or HK is not going to be a winning platform in USPSA PCC or 3 gun. Other stuff has risen to dominate.

No reason to hate them or not own, use, and enjoy them.

Bro, just go out and get an AMX for Christ sake......

[ramairthree]

Interestingly enough, at Knob Creek MG shoots M-10s w/ Lage uppers win all the time. Part of that is probably because they are the most common entry level SMG. But they are hardly the cutting edge of modern PCC/SMG platforms.

I bought a SWD M11 9 back in the early 90s when they were 400 bucks.
A few years ago I looked at get a Lage upper, looked at a friend’s, and he had a bunch of videos on KC subgun narionals on his computer.
I don’t think I saw anyone running a single stage where I didn’t think, Christ, I could have ran that with a semiauto PCC and smoked their time with a lot less ammo.

Instead of investing more in the M11, I ended up selling it.

If I won the lottery, maybe I would have a lot of full auto.
For recreation.

[Firefly]

I want a Vietnam War M60 so bad it actually hurts. I know they suck. I know they are problematic. I know a 240 eats its lunch but...

80s kid, bruh. You understand.

If I win the lottery....I am getting an M60 and a Stoner.

The only select fire AR that made any sense to me was a Colt SMG. I always liked that over MP5 just due to muscle memory.

If I get into PCC gaming it is either that with a G go fast trigger or an EVO.