Medicare for All

**docsherm** · 03-06-19, 11:50

Originally Posted by Hmac

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Yup. All of the above.

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Thanks.

But you like button doesn't work........

**Hmac** · 03-06-19, 12:19

A big part of the reason for the US high health care cost is the advance of technology. The US absolutely leads the world in broadly implementing cutting edge technology, but that shit costs money, lots of it, and the cost is increasingly increasing. As an example that I've been dealing with over the last 12 months, the da Vinci Xi surgical robot provides some significant advances in Surgery. That robot is just now entering an explosive growth phase across the country/around the world. That robot costs $2.5 million. Likewise, the complexity of the many other surgical tools that I use every day is increasing exponentially (as is the cost). Imaging technology (CT scans, MRI, PET etc) a vital part of medical practice, is rapidly increasing in accuracy and sophistication and allowing me to see things and do things that I couldn't have even dreamed of when I was a resident 35 years ago. How do we decrease the cost of medicine without limiting, or preventing, access to all of that increasingly sophisticated (and expensive) technology? Should we just skip it? "Mr. Smith...the technology exists to do your operation with more precision, fewer complications, less pain, but...sorry...it's just too expensive. We'll just have to do it the old way because it's cheaper". Or should we limit access, like they do in Canada? "I'm sorry Mr. Smith...you need a 3-Tesla MRI scan with rectal coils to stage your rectal cancer. It's a very expensive machine and there are only two in this state. You'll have to drive 4 hours to get the test, and it looks like we can get you in in 3 months...".

Welcome to Medicare for All.

**docsherm** · 03-06-19, 12:43

Originally Posted by Hmac

A big part of the reason for the US high health care cost is the advance of technology. The US absolutely leads the world in broadly implementing cutting edge technology, but that shit costs money, lots of it, and the cost is increasingly increasing. As an example that I've been dealing with over the last 12 months, the da Vinci Xi surgical robot provides some significant advances in Surgery. That robot is just now entering an explosive growth phase across the country/around the world. That robot costs $2.5 million. Likewise, the complexity of the many other surgical tools that I use every day is increasing exponentially (as is the cost). Imaging technology (CT scans, MRI, PET etc) a vital part of medical practice, is rapidly increasing in accuracy and sophistication and allowing me to see things and do things that I couldn't have even dreamed of when I was a resident 35 years ago. How do we decrease the cost of medicine without limiting, or preventing, access to all of that increasingly sophisticated (and expensive) technology? Should we just skip it? "Mr. Smith...the technology exists to do your operation with more precision, fewer complications, less pain, but...sorry...it's just too expensive. We'll just have to do it the old way because it's cheaper". Or should we limit access, like they do in Canada? "I'm sorry Mr. Smith...you need a 3-Tesla MRI scan with rectal coils to stage your rectal cancer. It's a very expensive machine and there are only two in this state. You'll have to drive 4 hours to get the test, and it looks like we can get you in in 3 months...".

Welcome to Medicare for All.

And to the VA..........

I agree 100% with that post. Medicine is a resource and there will always be competition for resources. In the M4A system it will back up the system...... and everyone will pay for it.....and not just in $$$$$ but also in lives.

**just a scout** · 03-06-19, 12:59

Originally Posted by GH41

Medicare for all might work if combined with tort reform.

The Socialist asshats pushing M4A are also fighting tort reform tooth and nail.

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**Averageman** · 03-06-19, 13:33

Just a couple of points here, I'm by no means a medical or an insurance expert, just an old guy who's observed a lot of malarkey.

If huge Insurance Companies were going to be ruined by Medicaid for All, don't you think there would be Legions of Lobbyists descending on every State Capital and that Washington DC would look like Omaha Beach with Lobbyists swarming the place with Lawyers Guns and Money?
Big Pharma has a stake in this too and will be effected as it gets a squeeze, so why isn't Big Pharma doing the Lobbyists thing also? I mean their profits come in part from what Americans are willing to pay for pharmaceuticals versus the rest of the World which in many cases is quite a bit less, so why aren't they up in arms?

Someone is going to pay more and my best guess would be taxpayers. No one else is taking a pay cut or giving up their golden parachute.

**docsherm** · 03-06-19, 13:40

Originally Posted by Averageman

Just a couple of points here, I'm by no means a medical or an insurance expert, just an old guy who's observed a lot of malarkey.

If huge Insurance Companies were going to be ruined by Medicaid for All, don't you think there would be Legions of Lobbyists descending on every State Capital and that Washington DC would look like Omaha Beach with Lobbyists swarming the place with Lawyers Guns and Money?
Big Pharma has a stake in this too and will be effected as it gets a squeeze, so why isn't Big Pharma doing the Lobbyists thing also? I mean their profits come in part from what Americans are willing to pay for pharmaceuticals versus the rest of the World which in many cases is quite a bit less, so why aren't they up in arms?

Someone is going to pay more and my best guess would be taxpayers. No one else is taking a pay cut or giving up their golden parachute.

Because someone will have to administer it...... The Insurance companies will have to do it just like they do for Medicare and Medicaid. You are correct.... the Tax payers will be the ones that suffer....... Notice I said taxpayers and not people. If you pay in you are going to get screwed in this deal....BIG TIME

**Hmac** · 03-06-19, 13:41

Originally Posted by Averageman

Just a couple of points here, I'm by no means a medical or an insurance expert, just an old guy who's observed a lot of malarkey.

If huge Insurance Companies were going to be ruined by Medicaid for All, don't you think there would be Legions of Lobbyists descending on every State Capital and that Washington DC would look like Omaha Beach with Lobbyists swarming the place with Lawyers Guns and Money?
Big Pharma has a stake in this too and will be effected as it gets a squeeze, so why isn't Big Pharma doing the Lobbyists thing also? I mean their profits come in part from what Americans are willing to pay for pharmaceuticals versus the rest of the World which in many cases is quite a bit less, so why aren't they up in arms?

Why do you think that they aren't?

**JoshNC** · 03-06-19, 14:28

Does everyone recognize that Medicare for all is not the equivalent of a completely government run healthcare system, which would be more like VA medical care for all? I’m not in favor of Medicare for all or any government run healthcare system. But it’s important to understand that Medicare is health insurance. Patients go to private, non-government physicians and use their Medicare as one would use any other commercial insurance. Long wait times, poor quality of care, etc would be the result of a healthcare system. Again, I’m not in favor of Medicare for all.