Medicare for All

[Adrenaline_6]

For non-ACA plans, premium increases are down to below pre-ACA levels. The exchange is a disaster because of insurance companies leaving the market after subsequent repeal of certain ACA provisions. Again, neither the ACA or the status quo ante tackled the structural problems of our insurance/healthcare system, but ACA at least attempted to - generally by applying Medicare-like oversight.

They were already leaving before the repeal because it was designed to fail to begin with and the providers saw it wasn't in their best interest to continue.

You're right, government control should never be considered the best option. However, Government or not, in the real world, you can have 2 of those 3, but not all 3. We currently don't even have 1 of the 3 with ACA-lite and were arguably worse off prior to the ACA, so what's your solution beyond repealing the ACA (because that ain't gonna do it)?

I don't have a solution because I am in no way an expert and know all the facts to come up with one, but to acknowledge the fact that the government is a poor choice but we should do something and that is at least something is a mirror image of the gun control nut saying we should pass more gun control laws because we should at least do something to stop gun violence.

...In retrospect, it is actually worse, because the gun control nut doesn't acknowledge the fact that gun laws will solve nothing.

[sundance435]

I don't have a solution because I am in no way an expert and know all the facts to come up with one, but to acknowledge the fact that the government is a poor choice but we should do something and that is at least something is a mirror image of the gun control nut saying we should pass more gun control laws because we should at least do something to stop gun violence.

...In retrospect, it is actually worse, because the gun control nut doesn't acknowledge the fact that gun laws will solve nothing.

I get that that might be a tempting analogy, but if you don't see a difference between government "doing something" about the health insurance industry vs. gun control, then we'll agree to disagree. One (2A) is a fundamental right enshrined in the Constitution, the other is purely a creation of a semi-free market and driven by profit, despite being fundamentally important to another inalienable right. I have no doubt that it was government involvement in the first place that created the healthcare mess pre-ACA (see ERISA, HMO Act, etc.), but we don't live in a vacuum and here we are. At this point, I think it's fair to say that the government will never not be involved in healthcare. So, either it unscrews the system it helped create and allowed to fester, or we end up with single-payer. ACA, warts and all, at least contained some provisions to address fundamental flaws - maybe it's a distinction without a difference, but I don't really see how the status quo was viable, either.

[docsherm]

What a ridiculously absurd statement. Right, the only people who can't afford health insurance are those without jobs and/or made bad life decisions. I'm sure you go to church every Sunday, too.

Also, I never said ACA was THE solution. In fact, I said it was the least bad solution between doing nothing and single-payer. Let's just shit-can it, though, because Obama, and let insurance premiums and healthcare spending spiral upward to infinity. Cross-state policies? Sure, that's a minor fix, but not the panacea some claim it to be.

Show me a real example where a person did not make a poor life choice and is in a situation where they can't afford insurance........ I will wait. Life choices will come back in get you. And WTF does going to church have to do with anything?

And the Do Nothing would have been better then the ACA. Here is the real story that you never hear..... YES, more people have insurance (uninsured dropped 19% See link for citation) That means nothing in reality. Do these people now have access to healthcare...... NOPE, even less people have access now. Now people have super high Co Pays and Deductibles that they can never afford to meet. So in REALITY more people have less access to health care. SO doing NOTHING would have been better.



https://www.inlander.com/Bloglander/...ld-go-up-again

[Adrenaline_6]

I get that that might be a tempting analogy, but if you don't see a difference between government "doing something" about the health insurance industry vs. gun control, then we'll agree to disagree. One (2A) is a fundamental right enshrined in the Constitution, the other is purely a creation of a semi-free market and driven by profit, despite being fundamentally important to another inalienable right

I thnk you missed the point. I was not making a rights vs. needs comparison. It was only about "doing something just to do something" is never a good idea. This is exactly the same in both cases. Knowing that something won't work and doing it anyway just to say you tried something and it made you or other people temporarily feel better because of it, is not only a waste of time and resources, it is outright ignorant and illogical.

You know who did the same exact thing, lynch mobs.

[sundance435]

Show me a real example where a person did not make a poor life choice and is in a situation where they can't afford insurance........ I will wait. Life choices will come back in get you. And WTF does going to church have to do with anything?

If they aren't on a group plan: juvenile diabetics, juvenile cancer patients, anyone with a chronic condition that has nothing to do with life choices, etc., then it's fair to say they might have a problem affording insurance on their own.

[docsherm]

If they aren't on a group plan: juvenile diabetics, juvenile cancer patients, anyone with a chronic condition that has nothing to do with life choices, etc., then it's fair to say they might have a problem affording insurance on their own.

All of which are covered if they have a policy before the diagnosis....... even before the ACA. Having you child diagnosed with juvenile diabetics of cancer an THEN trying to get coverage was is like to buy a parachute AFTER you jump out of a plan. The sob stories about a carrier dropping people after they get a diagnosis is mostly crap. Most of the time it has to due with them not paying their premium on time or not filling the proper documents to the carrier when asked for them.

Here is a situation I want you to do. Call Geico, or any insurance company, and tell them that you to want to insure your car. Also tell them that you wrecked it last week and need to know how to file a claim. Or home insurance.... tell them your house burnt down last week. Or renters insurance and tell them that your apartment was broken into last week and everything was stolen...... Or that you want to buy Life insurance for you spouse that died last week........Or get some short and long term disability insurance and tell them that you broke both of your legs and arms last week........see what happens........ Let me know what they say.........

Poor choices..... get insurance and don't let it lapse. Have it BEFORE something happens and you become one of those people that complain that they can't get coverage because they waited until something bad happened...... Again, THAT IS A POOR LIFE CHOICE.

[26 Inf]

Well, sure, you can look back at anything and say poor life choice - folks make them everyday.

Do you by any chance have kids?

[docsherm]

Well, sure, you can look back at anything and say poor life choice - folks make them everyday.

Do you by any chance have kids?

Four of them and before I had them I ensured that all of their needs were provided for BEFORE I had them. I also waited longer to have them then most and did not have them until I was properly prepared, all of the important bases covered..... married, good job, savings, benefits, GOOD INSURANCE, and living in an area that has a great school system.

Have I made mistakes, sure I have, but I take responsibility for them and then I fix them. I don't whine about them and blame others for them.

[GH41]

Let's talk about the average American. Say a single mother with a couple of young kids. She lives down south where 40-50K per year is a good salary for a women. When she lost her husband the settlement allowed her to pay off the house and put away some money for the kids education. She pays $150 a week for child care while she works. How does she budget an $1,100 per month insurance premium with an $8,000 per year deductible? She would spend $21,000 for insurance a year before she has any insurance coverage and $7,800 for child care so she can work. How does she do it? She doesn't! Is she somehow negligent for not being a doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief? If everyone was a successful doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief the job wouldn't pay very well. Most doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs won't admit that to some degree they are lucky to be successful. They look down at the hard working people that weren't so lucky. There are plenty of hard working people out there that cannot afford GOOD INSURANCE like the Doc can. The system is ****ed up. The average American cannot afford health insurance.

[docsherm]

Let's talk about the average American. Say a single mother with a couple of young kids. She lives down south where 40-50K per year is a good salary for a women. When she lost her husband the settlement allowed her to pay off the house and put away some money for the kids education. She pays $150 a week for child care while she works. How does she budget an $1,100 per month insurance premium with an $8,000 per year deductible? She would spend $21,000 for insurance a year before she has any insurance coverage and $7,800 for child care so she can work. How does she do it? She doesn't! Is she somehow negligent for not being a doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief? If everyone was a successful doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief the job wouldn't pay very well. Most doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs won't admit that to some degree they are lucky to be successful. They look down at the hard working people that weren't so lucky. There are plenty of hard working people out there that cannot afford GOOD INSURANCE like the Doc can. The system is ****ed up. The average American cannot afford health insurance.

You have got to be kidding........ such a sad sorry.

So what is your hypothetical woman doing to improve her life situation? $40-50 k sucks. She needs to improve her situation....... how about an education..... she can go to school and get her degree ...... while working and taking care of her kids and so forth. It sucks for a bit but it can be done. Sleep less and stay up to do homework. Get a degree in something that is useful to society and you will get paid.

Here is how the story plays out. This woman gets enrolled in college to become an ADN. She does all of her online classes at night after the kids go to bed. She Diego to bed before midnight during the week for the 2 years she is getting Associate Degree in Nursing. But she is thinking about her kids and does it. She graduates and passes her boards. There is suck a shortage of RNs that it only takes her 1 week to get a job and she is now making $60k (median income for the US). Wow.... she is .ow making $10k more in just 2 years.....

But wait.... the suck is not over. She does not quite. She stays at it and gets her BSN and now has a 4 year degree after 18 more months. And now she is making $70k ( median income for the US). She now make $20k more..... oh, and she now has good health insurance because most medical systems have good coverage.

But wait. She is a motivated person and after 2 years of working as an RN she goes back to school and gets her Masters as a Nurse Practitioner while working as an RN making $70k a year. After her 36 month program she is an NP and making something like $110k a year. It was hard work and she lost a lot of sleep but she doubled her salary and now has a career and good health insurance....... good for her.

That is what I call a life choice.