A visual example of why M4C recommends quality AR parts

[Hammer_Man]

Don't know what to tell you. If you're implying that it's impossible for a Colt spring to be rusted I can 100% testify that at least one of the two I saw had to have been installed that way by Colt.

I could maybe concede that since I bought the AR15A2 second-hand that I can't prove the former owner didn't substitute a different hammer spring even though the gun was quoted as and looked NIB. That's an extreme possibility as far as I'm concerned. I don't think the rust was factory oil, either because it was the wrong color.

The hammer spring had very light rust that cleaned right off with oil and a little steel wool. I guess it's possible the rust had leaked onto it from another component, or was corroded firing residue, or whatever, but that's unlikely since the hammer spring and only the hammer spring showed any corrosion of any of the FCG components. It was a solid rust red color compared to the bright shiny and oily FCG parts around it.

As for the delta ring spring on the other rifle, that was obviously, and I mean OBVIOUSLY, pitted and refinished over the pitting. I wanted to send it back to Colt but it was right around the time of the 1994 AWB so I was somewhat concerned I might not be allowed to pick it up after returning from repair. (The final version of the AWB hadn't been ironed out yet in Congress).

I had ordered that rifle through the dealer who had to order it from the distributor. There is no way that rusted/refinished delta ring spring wasn't installed that way by Colt.

I cite as evidence that Colt does stuff like that is the two 6720's I bought over a six-month period.

Both had mag catches with light rust. I ordered both through Impact Guns and picked them up from different dealers. Granted, the rust on the mag catches was very light and cleaned right up with oil and steel wool, but that's beside the point. Those parts had to have been rusted in Colt's parts bin and Colt installed them on rifles anyway. You can't tell me that two rifles with very far apart serial numbers and ordered months apart would just happen to have had the same part on both rust in storage at the distributor.

I personally think both the rusted springs on those previous rifles were knowingly installed that way by Colt. Maybe that gets back to "just what does Colt outsource and can we be certain of quality."

I can see where you're coming from, and I by no means intend to start a flame war with you. It seems we've had different experiences with the same stuff. I've used a lot of Colt rifles that have not had the greatest care, and at the end of the day they all seem to snap together and hold a zero like they're supposed to. During the panic buying I bought DPMS, Spike's, and Anderson lower parts because that was all I could find. ln some way they all seemed to leave me slightly dissatisfied, as they all seemed to not fit or function quite as nicely as the Colt parts I usually use. For example the safety selectors felt mushy, and the take down pins could be pressed in a bit too easily for my liking; small things like that. In the end I'm sure they'd work for most people, but eventually they all got replaced with Colt parts. Most people probably don't care, but I do. It's the little things which make the difference for me. There seems to be a mindset that Bear Creek, Anderson, DPMS, Spike's etc, are just as good as (or the same thing), and I'm here to tell everybody that oft times they are not. YMMV.

[Doc Safari]

I can see where you're coming from, and I by no means intend to start a flame war with you.

Don't get me wrong. I read a challenge into your comments, so for the sake of the audience I thought I'd clarify.

It seems we've had different experiences with the same stuff. I've used a lot of Colt rifles that have not had the greatest care, and at the end of the day they all seem to snap together and hold a zero like they're supposed to.

A year or two ago, I made the decision that since I'm getting older I'd switch to all Colt rifles in the belief they hold their value better. Not trying to start a debate on that, just stating why I've made the purchases I've made over the last two years.

In that time, I got a 6920 that the hammer pin walked. It was obviously a case of the factory worker not pushing it in all the way, because I pushed it in and it "clicked", and hasn't walked out since. Another rifle was my latest 6720 that fired fine the first 200 rounds, then when I pulled the bolt out to clean it I couldn't get it back in the bolt carrier. One of the bolt rings was kinked and evidently was functional until I removed the bolt and it had a chance to "jump" out of the groove. Again: a Colt factory worker assembly issue. I replaced all three rings and rocked on. It's my everyday shooter now.

I had two identical Colts in the 1990's. I swapped the uppers to try to give one rifle all the "nice looking" upper and lower, and let the one with cosmetic flaws be my shooter. When I swapped the uppers both rifles became unreliable. I never did figure that one out. Since then I've never had a new upper not work 100% with a lower.

During the panic buying I bought DPMS, Spike's, and Anderson lower parts because that was all I could find. ln some way they all seemed to leave me slightly dissatisfied, as they all seemed to not fit or function quite as nicely as the Colt parts I usually use.

Well, lessee: I've had Bushmasters. On one the trigger wouldn't reset. At all. All of them seemed to be less than reliable. I've had BCM's that I was very satisfied with, until I fired two different BCM's side-by-side with two different Colts, and the Colts were more accurate. Maybe that's not true of every batch. My BCM's were very low serial numbers in the 900 range.

For example the safety selectors felt mushy, and the take down pins could be pressed in a bit too easily for my liking; small things like that. In the end I'm sure they'd work for most people, but eventually they all got replaced with Colt parts. Most people probably don't care, but I do. It's the little things which make the difference for me. There seems to be a mindset that Bear Creek, Anderson, DPMS, Spike's etc, are just as good as (or the same thing), and I'm here to tell everybody that oft times they are not. YMMV.

As stated earlier, I've gone all Colt all the time, but it's not like they can't have their quirks or bad parts too.

[Hammer_Man]

Don't get me wrong. I read a challenge into your comments, so for the sake of the audience I thought I'd clarify.

I can see how my post came across that way, but I have no beef with you. You're one of the forum members I respect highly.

A year or two ago, I made the decision that since I'm getting older I'd switch to all Colt rifles in the belief they hold their value better. Not trying to start a debate on that, just stating why I've made the purchases I've made over the last two years.

In that time, I got a 6920 that the hammer pin walked. It was obviously a case of the factory worker not pushing it in all the way, because I pushed it in and it "clicked", and hasn't walked out since. Another rifle was my latest 6720 that fired fine the first 200 rounds, then when I pulled the bolt out to clean it I couldn't get it back in the bolt carrier. One of the bolt rings was kinked and evidently was functional until I removed the bolt and it had a chance to "jump" out of the groove. Again: a Colt factory worker assembly issue. I replaced all three rings and rocked on. It's my everyday shooter now.

Sorry to hear your new rifles gave you issues out of the box. I've owned three 6920s, one of which was an early SOCOM model with the Knight's rail. None of them ever had any fit, finish, or function issues. I did purchase those rifles years ago, before Colt's current financial woes... I hope your experience does not become the norm. Recently I did have an issue with a Colt barrel and a Colt bcg, both of which I purchased from AU. When I contacted Colt about my issues, they fixed them both under warranty without questions asked. It's that sort of customer service that keeps me as their customer.

Well, lessee: I've had Bushmasters. On one the trigger wouldn't reset. At all. All of them seemed to be less than reliable. I've had BCM's that I was very satisfied with, until I fired two different BCM's side-by-side with two different Colts, and the Colts were more accurate. Maybe that's not true of every batch. My BCM's were very low serial numbers in the 900 range.

I've never purchased a Bushmaster because I've picked up a few at the fun counter, and found small issues with a lot of them. Most recently I checked out a Bushmaster A2 my local store had on the rack, and the stock was loose. It was obvious somebody at the factory forgot to tighten the screw down all the way. So I'm not in a rush to buy a Bushmaster anytime soon. It's interesting your Colt shot that much better than a factory BCM, but than again Colt barrels have a solid reputation.

As stated earlier, I've gone all Colt all the time, but it's not like they can't have their quirks or bad parts too.

True, all manufacturers are bound to produce a clunker every now and then.

[Gunfixr]

That doesn't really prove anything, except one rusted and one didn't.
Now, that is not to say that cheap parts are as good as quality parts, for that is not so.
But, why one part is rusted, and one is not, has many variables, and quality of the part is but one of them.
Yes, quality parts may not rust as easily, but they will rust just the same. These are Springs, and while there are many grades of steel, only a few are usable for Springs.

Not to mention, that having a single raindrop fall into one percussion cap, in a cap loader, on a rainy day, where caps were used all day long, says that perhaps one spring saw more water than the other.

[1168]

I've disassembled Colt A2s that had mud caked in the lower receiver for who knows how long. Want to know how many rusted springs I found? ZERO.

While I can agree that Euro’s post is unscientific, I also believe it has merit. I’ve taken M4’s and M16’s swimming on more than one occasion, and trekked in rainy, humid swamps and forests with them for days (weeks even) on end more than once, as well. Returning to garrison, I usually found a bit of orange on the barrel under the handguards, no matter how much CLP I slathered on before use.

But I have not ever noted any rust in the coil springs, such as the selector detent spring. Or any other spring, for that matter.

I did, however deadline a RRA LPK on a personally owned gun in pretty short order due to rust.

[Coal Dragger]

Thanks for the write up useful post Eurodriver.

I agree that you get what you pay for most of the time with firearms, parts, optics etc.

In this instance I’m taking away an additional lesson that it’s not a bad idea to pull the pistol grip and inspect, dry, clean, and lube springs if one of my M4’s has gotten soaked. It’s pretty easy to do and could save a guy some grief.

[Eurodriver]

My question is what lead to this need to clean them? Easy fix, get good part and don't clean. Problem solved.........

I didn’t clean them. I was swapping grips to be color coordinated when I sell my poverty upper for something a little more Kool And Christlike.

[MegademiC]

If you all really want to know, I can tell you what they are made of.
XRF is non-destructive ball-parking
AA can get to fractions of a %.

I have access to both.
Was it water, lack of lube, or material differences-only one way to know.

[Hammer_Man]

While I can agree that Euro’s post is unscientific, I also believe it has merit. I’ve taken M4’s and M16’s swimming on more than one occasion, and trekked in rainy, humid swamps and forests with them for days (weeks even) on end more than once, as well. Returning to garrison, I usually found a bit of orange on the barrel under the handguards, no matter how much CLP I slathered on before use.

But I have not ever noted any rust in the coil springs, such as the selector detent spring. Or any other spring, for that matter.

I did, however deadline a RRA LPK on a personally owned gun in pretty short order due to rust.

The fact that most A2s still continue to truck on, despite the abuse and neglect they've received all their life, is a testament to me of their build quality. I'm sure the small parts Colt sourced for those weapons plays a big part in their long life.

[26 Inf]

While I can agree that Euro’s post is unscientific, I also believe it has merit. I’ve taken M4’s and M16’s swimming on more than one occasion, and trekked in rainy, humid swamps and forests with them for days (weeks even) on end more than once, as well. Returning to garrison, I usually found a bit of orange on the barrel under the handguards, no matter how much CLP I slathered on before use.

But I have not ever noted any rust in the coil springs, such as the selector detent spring. Or any other spring, for that matter.

I did, however deadline a RRA LPK on a personally owned gun in pretty short order due to rust.

Has the .mil changed that much post 9/11? We weren't allowed to take them down far enough to see any of the coiled springs.