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Thread: two ammo options for vehicle assaults

  1. #1
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    two ammo options for vehicle assaults

    I have an HK UMP that I run exclusively for high-risk vehicle contacts on patrol/SWAT. All other work goes to my 5.56 SBR, so this question is only in regards to working on cars with that gun.

    My ammo choices are either the Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P or the Federal Tactical Bonded 230gr +P.

    From what I can find online, the C.D. is on the good doctors approved list, but isn't very highly regarded. The Federal bonded isn't on the list, but I don't know if that is just because it hasn't been tested. I can't find any good test data on the Federal. I'm leaning toward the Federal just because it is bonded and it's a slightly heavier bullet, so reason tells me it should do better through auto-glass, but the lack of any solid data has me second guessing that choice.

    Can anyone offer any feedback or real-world test data to compare either of these two rounds for my intended purpose? Also, who would ditch the UMP and run a Sig SBR with Hornady 55gr GMX barrier for vehicle work?

    Thanks for the help,
    Burke

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    Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1) is on the list, as is the Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP.

    As to what is better on the windshield test between them I don't know. I would choose the bonded for windshield without knowing more, but I would not worry either way.

    I believe the 5.56 would do better, and I know 12ga hardened slugs are the king of intermediate barriers.

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    Well would you look at that? I didn't notice the part number LE45T1 listed and just saw that it didn't have "bonded" anywhere in the name, alteast not on the list I have. I assumed it was a different round, but that is definitly the exact round I'm considering. So I guess I'm leaning towards going with the Federal bonded ammo, thanks Todd.

    I would still love to hear from anyone who has any info on how that round actually performs through auto glass and sheet metal.

    -Burke

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    Without actually testing both loads for the exact scenario you are describing...

    I would imagine the difference between the loads would be indestinguishable. There is only a 4% difference in the total mass between the two.

    The real question is 556 vs 45. Light and fast vs slow and heavy.

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    I canít give you personal experience with either round, but Iíd bet the difference is negligible. Even 45 vs 5.56 would be negligible.

    IMO, windshield/car body ballistics get to be a little overthought by many people. My reason for saying this is the difference between test data and real world application. Think about it, test data shows performance of ONE round through new/uncracked glass...whereas in the real world, youíll be pumping multiple rounds through the glass. After that first round defeats structural integrity of the glass, the following rounds will have much more effectiveness.

    Thatís not to say some bullet construction isnít better than others for that role, just that I think it matters way less in the real world due to its application when compared to test parameters.

    As for car body ballistics, from what Iíve seen, thereís really nothing that works 100% of the time up through the 308 caliber range. Maybe 12ga slugs would be closer to that 100%, but I wouldnít bet my life on it.

    Just my take on it.

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    One of the officers with our Sheriff Dept dumped a full mag from his MP5 into an oncoming truck a year or so ago, at a suspect who had shot at officers and others. The suspect was wearing armor but took one round in the shoulder which incapacitated him. He lived and was promptly arrested. I can't remember what ammo the officer was using unfortunately.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurkeB View Post
    I have an HK UMP that I run exclusively for high-risk vehicle contacts on patrol/SWAT. All other work goes to my 5.56 SBR, so this question is only in regards to working on cars with that gun.
    SNIP
    Also, who would ditch the UMP and run a Sig SBR with Hornady 55gr GMX barrier for vehicle work?
    SNIP
    I would choose a rifle caliber SBR fed with GMX over a UMP fed with anything available for nearly any conceivable LE purpose, including any vehicle contact that warrants the type of posture of using a rifle.

    Iím not a LEO, so take that with a grain of salt. I do have experience with vehicle interdiction/assault/clear/search, though.
    RLTW

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    If you have an SBR on hand, I wouldn’t mess with a UMP at all, particularly when dealing with vehicles and the challenges they bring. The UMP is 4 inches shorter so it’s not a huge difference in size from an 11.5” SBR (if you’re running the stock all the way out). If you’re doing vehicle assaults, that difference is practically zero. Going with a rifle caliber on vehicle take down is all win.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

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    I concur with others who prefer a rifle over a pistol caliber anything when working around cars. The feds used to tell us their 10mm MP-5’s worked really well shooting into vehicles but that was 10 or 15 years ago. Quality bonded 5.56 rules the day now. Sure part of their switch was HK stopping production of the guns and parts but I e not heard any of them wish they had their 10mm SMG’s back.

    If you are forced by policy to use a sub gun then you’re on the right track with bonded bullets. But if given a choice I’d strongly recommend the rifle. If you get the chance I highly encourage taking the VCQB class from Centrifuge (Will Petty). Some eye opening stuff and great ballistic demos. Full disclosure I’m a certified instructor for his program because my agency is adopting it.
    Before you suggest that licensing, background checks, or other restrictions for the 2nd Amendment are reasonable... Apply those same ideas to the 1st and 4th Amendments. Then tell me how reasonable they are.

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