Average shooter vs "Trained shooter"

[Smpr Fi]

So I see a lot of posts on this forum, about people that buy "cheap/garbage Ar's" and that they don't shoot them enough to know that they are "garbage".

So my question is, what do the people posting these statements think is the right amount of range time/rounds down range to qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT? What amount makes you no longer average?

Because I shoot at least 2-3 times a week with the same 3-4 people, EVERY week and I have to disagree with what is junk or not. I can pretty much guarantee I put in more time at the range than most on this website. I have both and so do the guys I shoot with highend AR's Noveske, Colt. I also have the so called "GARBAGE Del-Ton, Ruger AR's" and guess what? I have no problems with any of them and truthfully I shoot my "lowend AR's" more than any of my highend. I have a *&#@ ton of rounds through my cheap AR's and rarely clean them. I take them out on 3-4 day hunts where we are hiking all day & night through the desert and them perform flawlessly!

I am not saying that a Del-Ton is the same quality as a Colt or BCM etc.... But they do and will last and handle hard use. I just think that we should be a little more opened minded to the lower end market, they have their place and actually perform quite well!!

This thread was not meant to start an argument, just want to point out that maybe some of us need to actually give things a try before judging. Or, maybe a few of us need to be honest with ourselves and stop acting like we actually use our rifles enough to actually judge other peoples choices on cheaper rifle purchases.

[Dr. Bullseye]

I am just a guy who stumbled onto ARs. I did some research and visited some gun shops before buying. Finally, I decided to buy what my local gun shop sold. I am way out in the country and buying from him supports him and gains entry to his advice. His advice has never been wrong. My AR is not the cheapest nor the most expensive but it works just fine. I shoot about twice a month and have been shooting for about three years. I am perfectly happy with my AR. If and when my grandson (who is into guns) decides to build an AR as he said he wants to do, I would recommend Del-Ton. I have ordered from them and they have coached me on the phone and they have gone out of their way to make sure the tiny parts I ordered were correct. I think they are a fine company and have their catalog. As you can see, I am no expert but simply a guy who wants to wake up every day and learn something new.

I am not sure what a bad AR really is.

[Smpr Fi]

I am just a guy who stumbled onto ARs. I did some research and visited some gun shops before buying. Finally, I decided to buy what my local gun shop sold. I am way out in the country and buying from him supports him and gains entry to his advice. His advice has never been wrong. My AR is not the cheapest nor the most expensive but it works just fine. I shoot about twice a month and have been shooting for about three years. I am perfectly happy with my AR. If and when my grandson (who is into guns) decides to build an AR as he said he wants to do, I would recommend Del-Ton. I have ordered from them and they have coached me on the phone and they have gone out of their way to make sure the tiny parts I ordered were correct. I think they are a fine company and have their catalog. As you can see, I am no expert but simply a guy who wants to wake up every day and learn something new.

I am not sure what a bad AR really is.

Always nice to see a new AR fan! Always have an open mind to everyone's input when it comes to AR's. I personally have no problem with cheap AR's, but I also love my highend AR's.

When it comes to what is or is not a bad AR. Unfortunately a lot of people get caught up in brand names, don't get me wrong the brand names are GREAT but the cheap AR's will perform great also they just don't have the pedigree!

[DGB]

A number of years ago (11, I'm getting very old) , I beat the shit out of a Rock River 16" mid length to see if it would fail. Wolf 55 grain steel cased. I loaded 500 rounds and did mag dumps. I did shoot at a B 27 target to make myself feel like it wasn't a complete waste, but it kinda was. Nothing went wrong, the barrel got very hot, I gave the rifle to a really good friend and he still shoots it now and it is fine. I personally don't buy anything that anyone on this forum would not consider tier 1 because it makes me feel better, which it is really all about. I make myself shoot once a week, even if its ****ing snowing. I'm not even sure how much I like shooting anymore. Most people will never get into a gunfight with their AR, but the ones who have and live to post about it, will mentally give themselves every advantage, real or perceived, that they possibly can.

[Smpr Fi]

A number of years ago (11, I'm getting very old) , I beat the shit out of a Rock River 16" mid length to see if it would fail. Wolf 55 grain steel cased. I loaded 500 rounds and did mag dumps. I did shoot at a B 27 target to make myself feel like it wasn't a complete waste, but it kinda was. Nothing went wrong, the barrel got very hot, I gave the rifle to a really good friend and he still shoots it now and it is fine. I personally don't buy anything that anyone on this forum would not consider tier 1 because it makes me feel better, which it is really all about. I make myself shoot once a week, even if its ****ing snowing. I'm not even sure how much I like shooting anymore. Most people will never get into a gunfight with their AR, but the ones who have and live to post about it, will mentally give themselves every advantage, real or perceived, that they possible can.

I have used an AR for what they were intended for and trained with them for 8 years. I have no problem using a Del-ton, PSA, Ruger, etc... In a gunfight! And I have no problem using a highend AR also!

[Zane1844]

It's just like with anything, there is a reason certain parts and materials were chosen as "quality." Whether or not the shooter will ever see why really depends on the round count, and volumes of fire.

I had issues within 300 rounds with my S&W since it was overgassed. So, I add a heavier buffer, problems end. Now, get a BCM. Would that happen? No. I put over 3k through BCM and nothing has went wrong.

Now, will I break a BCM before a S&W? No clue, probably not. I have broke the buffer retaining pin from Del-Ton, though. I have also seen someone install a cheap light trigger and get light primer strikes, and a unstaked castle nut back out.

[Smpr Fi]

It's just like with anything, there is a reason certain parts and materials were chosen as "quality." Whether or not the shooter will ever see why really depends on the round count, and volumes of fire.

I had issues within 300 rounds with my S&W since it was overgassed. So, I add a heavier buffer, problems end. Now, get a BCM. Would that happen? No. I put over 3k through BCM and nothing has went wrong.

Now, will I break a BCM before a S&W? No clue, probably not. I have broke the buffer retaining pin from Del-Ton, though. I have also seen someone install a cheap light trigger and get light primer strikes, and a unstaked castle nut back out.

The problem with that train of thought "certain parts, quality..Mil-spec" the government chooses the lowest bidder when it comes to contracts. Always has and always will, so what does that really say about Colt and FN?

[Zane1844]

The problem with that train of thought "certain parts, quality..Mil-spec" the government chooses the lowest bidder when it comes to contracts. Always has and always will, so what does that really say about Colt and FN?

Not sure, but Colt's seem to be well made, I've seen very abused M4 still running fine. If a cheaper material could be used, I'm sure the government would use it, but the Mil spec has stayed, and been proven. There is no way you can say it hasn't.

Now have cheaper AR's been proven? Sure. As I said though, the only issues I have had with an AR is from cheap manufactures. YMMV.

[Stickman]

The problem with that train of thought "certain parts, quality..Mil-spec" the government chooses the lowest bidder when it comes to contracts. Always has and always will, so what does that really say about Colt and FN?

No, the GOV chooses the lowest bidder if all other things are equal and they meet the required standard. Colt and FN meet that standard.

We can talk all we want about how X gun is just as good, or question why you experience good times with cheap weapons, but it doesn’t change there is a standard that must be met under contract. It certainly isn’t just a low ball bidfest.

[TomMcC]

So the GOV is just looking for the lowest bidder? Like for F-22's or ballistic missile submarines or small arms?