Are the Red Flag laws going to be people’s line in the sand?

[grizzlyblake]

Maybe I'm just naive but in my circle of people most everyone is gun owners. Also as far as I know nobody has it out for me and would ruin my life and destroy my family by having me institutionalized and my guns taken away.

I kind of feel like if you go around being a loose cannon dick and have that many people out to get you you have other problems to worry about. Maybe just be a good guy that is surrounded by other cool people that want the group to succeed collectively.

I just don't see this as an issue unless you're already the type with restraining orders and a history of domestic dispute calls to your house.

For those that are legitimately concerned... Can you make a list of people who want to ruin you by red flagging you? I'd say start trying today to unscrew whatever previous crazy damage you've done to your personal relationships. Going forward don't piss people off. Learn how to live like a responsible man that people respect.

[ramairthree]

A few notes.

I don’t think the universe is out to get me. I think there is an attack on Western European culture, classic America, gun owners, mascul8nity, etc, on several fronts from several sources.

I don’t mean a red line in the sand for society, I mean for individuals.

Invols are real. Little 200k cities will have a dozen or so a day. One or two of those will be BS- some guy with nonright to face his accuser, rolled up without due process, with no repercussions to the accusers. Red Flag will also have their guns rolled up. With a push for anybody to drop a roll up on somebody, and a political desire to do so. Not just the dysfunctional, the borderlines, the caustic divorces, etc.

Edit-
Those students we hear about getting caught up over a picture at the range or with issues at work over a hunting photo, this will be a whole other l vet.

[fledge]

A few notes.

I don’t think the universe is out to get me. I think there is an attack on Western European culture, classic America, gun owners, mascul8nity, etc, on several fronts from several sources.

I don’t mean a red line in the sand for society, I mean for individuals.

I see a red line as non-compliance. That’s the first step of “no more” and where many are now. Hence my first comment. A thousands steps are taken between non-compliance and violence.

I agree with your assessment. I see a lot of naïveté in this thread and the larger conversations in play. From censorship to doxxing to shame politics, these red flag laws are part of the mosaic. If we take them in isolation, we miss the point. These are sold as a firearms safety issue. In realty, they are SS policing wedge in our system that takes the other issues to the next level. As if the patriot act wasn’t bad enough. Facebook has just announced banning everything it considers “white supremacy” and “white nationalism.” We know what that means. The hatred of the left is emboldened and they are labeling hate groups with the wave of the hand. Red flag laws bring the consent of the governed. They will be abused but all those that are abusing now.

I have hope that many now know their red line. Not only are people flooding NZ police with false reports, now people are tagging their gun photos around the world and putting NZ location markers on them. It’s similar to everyone willing to wear gold stars. These are human rights issues, not gun issues.

Now, don’t be naive. They hate you, your individualism, your personal power, and your moral realism. I’m not paranoid. But I know an orc when I see it.

[Hmac]

The point, and the way I read the OP, is not whether or not a "red line" exists...it's "what are you going to do when the FedGov crosses that red line?" Are you going to just meekly go along? Let them take your guns if you've been "red-flagged"? Or are you going to take up arms against your "oppressors"? Personally, I'm confident of the former. Lot's of big talk on the internet, but when push comes to shove and the Sheriff is standing at your front door with a legal confiscation order.....

[fledge]

It’s case by case. The guy in Maryland stood his ground and was killed by police. We know his red line. Some may play along. Some go into hiding. Some file law suits. Law suits are red lines too. Context determines everything. All along, gun control has been successful because of peaceful compliance. They depend on Fudds. But we’re seeing that change. Even Fudds are slowly waking. A few on the internet are the loud jockeys. But we can’t discount that non-compliance is growing just because a few twits speak loudly about it. Sanctuary counties are growing. Noveske and Radian and others are finally pulling their weight and marching.

But we all may mean something different by red lines and the strategies available. The bus laws in Alabama were a red line. And they waited for the right moment to boycott. Nobody knew before hand that the bridge in Lexington would be the red line as far as a violent red line goes, but the world heard the shot and everything changed.

[ramairthree]

The point, and the way I read the OP, is not whether or not a "red line" exists...it's "what are you going to do when the FedGov crosses that red line?" Are you going to just meekly go along? Let them take your guns if you've been "red-flagged"? Or are you going to take up arms against your "oppressors"? Personally, I'm confident of the former. Lot's of big talk on the internet, but when push comes to shove and the Sheriff is standing at your front door with a legal confiscation order.....

Yes.
That is the red line I am talking about.

Like a guy taking a leak or walking his dog at a rest stop in NY-
Completely in compliance with FOPA, on a trip from his hunting property in Maine to his home in GA-
When a cop asks to see his ID and wants to search the back of his enclosed pick up.

Guy is completely legal.
But about to get hung up on criminal charges and have his guns taken a way
Never to get them back even if he beats the charges/rap that are a violation of FOPA.
Does he peacefully get wrapped up in that, or is it his line in the sand and he acts?

So, when these laws pass, and you are one of the poor bastards about to get locked up and your guns taken away, likely to never get them back, with your reputation tarnished forever, -
Say, your ex you kicked out for drug use has gone to the cops saying you beat her senseless with a gun to her head and raped her twice while dictating a manifesto about mass shootings-
There is a guy or two with a badge at your door and a couple of vehicles in your driveway-
Do you get cuffed and stuffed or is it your red line?

I predict for most guys with a lot to lose,
They take the hit.

My concern is- there are a lot of guys with no Fs left to give who will not cross that line.

[Firefly]

Just a friendly reminder that the police aren’t always the bad guys. The guy who wrote you a seatbelt ticket that one day you couldn’t afford to be late to work may well be the guy saying “hell no” to gun confiscation.

If it even gets that far.

Try better optics.

Try being open minded. And try not to be elitist with guns.

You’d be surprised who is on your side if you’d let them be

[Doc Safari]

Just a friendly reminder that the police aren’t always the bad guys. The guy who wrote you a seatbelt ticket that one day you couldn’t afford to be late to work may well be the guy saying “hell no” to gun confiscation.

AMEN. I'm amazed at how New Mexico sheriff's departments have stepped up to the plate to oppose even what some gun people call "reasonable" firearms legislation.

[Firefly]

Yes.
That is the red line I am talking about.

Like a guy taking a leak or walking his dog at a rest stop in NY-
Completely in compliance with FOPA, on a trip from his hunting property in Maine to his home in GA-
When a cop asks to see his ID and wants to search the back of his enclosed pick up.

Guy is completely legal.
But about to get hung up on criminal charges and have his guns taken a way
Never to get them back even if he beats the charges/rap that are a violation of FOPA.
Does he peacefully get wrapped up in that, or is it his line in the sand and he acts?

So, when these laws pass, and you are one of the poor bastards about to get locked up and your guns taken away, likely to never get them back, with your reputation tarnished forever, -
Say, your ex you kicked out for drug use has gone to the cops saying you beat her senseless with a gun to her head and raped her twice while dictating a manifesto about mass shootings-
There is a guy or two with a badge at your door and a couple of vehicles in your driveway-
Do you get cuffed and stuffed or is it your red line?

I predict for most guys with a lot to lose,
They take the hit.

My concern is- there are a lot of guys with no Fs left to give who will not cross that line.

Most police worth their salt given any amount of investigation can rule such a scenario as unfounded.

You might be guilty on Twitter but in the real world it takes more than a vindictive bitch to get someone hemmed up on a rape and DomVio beef.

The only people who get roughed, cuffed, and stuffed are usually the people thinking it is somehow a good idea to swing on a police who doesn’t know anything about you

[ABNAK]

I would submit that in a Red Flag scenario that you probably wouldn't know it's coming. Not much you could do in that case. You would have to fight it out in court, because whoever provided that "tip" didn't call you to let you know.

A mass confiscation order (such as a national AWB) is a different story altogether. It wouldn't occur in a vacuum, and you would know what was taking place and could act accordingly; make shit disappear, fight, whatever you chose to do.