View Poll Results: Enhanced Performance Magazines are...

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  • The best USGI mag ever!

    4 26.67%
  • The worst USGI mag ever.

    0 0%
  • No better or worse than previous USGI mags.

    8 53.33%
  • Okay if you have M855A1, but useless otherwise.

    3 20.00%
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Thread: Questions about M855A1

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulyAZ View Post
    No.

    M855A1 with the tungsten tip pits your receivers and chamber if not fed in properly as the tip is harder than the aluminum or steel.

    That tip chips everything it touches. M855a1 is garbage because it shouldn’t be shot out of the rifles we are using it with.

    We know it exist, it’s just stupid until we get something that doesn’t get damaged with the use of it.


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    The only rifle it's known to damage is the M27. There is currently no tungsten in the round. The prototypes early on had a tungsten core under the steel penetrator, but that was changed to copper, to improve accuracy and reduce cost. It's just a steel penetrator, like M855, except it's heavier.

    There's apparently some wear on the feed ramps in the barrel extension if you're using standard mags, but it's something that happens over many thousands of rounds. And if you use either EPMs or Gen 3 Pmags then it's no longer an issue at all. And supposedly changing that presentation angle improves reliability anyways, so it's not like you're giving anything up. I've heard all the arguments, and talked to several people who have been using it in service, and the rumors are all just that, rumors.

    M855A1 is the Excalibur of 5.56. It has a short neck out of any barrel at any range, it's almost as good as bonafide AP, and it's almost match grade. And all that from something that's the same price as M193 and M855. Hell I shouldn't even be saying all this because I'm just going to make it harder for me to get it when it comes out on the commercial market. In fact, don't listen to me, it's awful, and if you ever come across some don't use it because it will ruin your AR. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    I hadn’t seen those details on the PMAGs, where did you get that info?


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    Comprehensive Test of the Magpul Industries Corp PMAG Gen 3 Magazine (2018)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    No one talks about it because Civs can't get it. You either have to buy pulled bullets and try to make some yourself, have some fall off the back of a truck somewhere of if you make youtube videos,stumble upon some rounds in the desert.
    Ahhh...I see. Thank you!
    The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.

  4. #24
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    855a1 is the best GP ammo ever issued, IMO. I was skeptical at first, because I thought the motive was bad. But I have come to like it. I probably have more experience than most with this round, but no combat experience with it. My observations:

    Its FAST. Some buddies and I chronoed it out of 14.5” ,18”, and 20” barrels. I don’t recall the numbers, exactly, but it was faster than green tip, significantly.

    I don’t see an unusual amount of stoppages in M16’s and M4’s. I also have a limited sampling of rounds fired through a 14.5” Noveske barreled rifle, with no stoppages. Very limited, though.

    It wrecks steel. The penetrator tip seems harder than the penetrator in M855, and as I said it seems a bit hotter.

    I don’t think its destroying guns, but I do suspect it operates at higher pressure. Its been quite a while since I have seen a broken bolt (M855, actually) but there are probably confounding factors there. Either way, I’m not seeing the pile of broken weapons that others predicted.

    I have seen one M16 that had some pitting beneath the barrel extension feed ramps that looked as though rounds were striking the aluminum of the receiver. I have no way of knowing the cause, so I cannot attribute the damage to M855a1. The weapon functioned without issues, with M855a1. I rarely get to participate in cleaning the weapons, so I cannot say if other weapons show similar wear.

    I’m not seeing a problem with gray mags with green or tan followers, gray mags with Magpul followers, or Okay Surefeeds. I’ve not tried a meaningful amount with PMags or black HK mags yet. I have not used the new Surefeeds with the bumps on the mag body.

    I feel like we’re seeing better groups than I remember with green tip. Take this with several grains of salt, because I haven’t really tested this, and I’m not Molon, not even a little. I can say with certainty, though, that accuracy is not worse, with M4’s and M16’s. Edit: I just looked at a photo of 10rnd groups fired to demonstrate zero shift. Rounds fired included M855, Precision One 62gr steel-free, Fusion MSR, and M855a1. Rifle was Noveske 14.5” stainless. M855a1 had the tightest group, but no effort was being made to fire the best possible groups, so that could be a fluke.

    It is said to have excellent terminal characteristics.
    Last edited by 1168; 04-02-19 at 07:35. Reason: Clarity

  5. #25
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    Questions about M855A1



    This was my first time shooting 855A1, shot at 25m with a 68. It doesn’t really say anything without an 855 group to compare, but it was noticeably tighter. Once we got fielded the new M4s, it was even better.


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    Sic semper tyrannis.

  6. #26
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    Sierra 69-grain Match Kings are very close in length to M855 Green Tip. M855A1s are close to Sierra 77-grain Match Kings in length. A1 groups much, much better than average Green Tip.

    My teams have fired it through M16A2s, M16A4s, and M4A1s with some pretty impressive results. I never saw significant wear feeding it out of legacy standard GI 20- and 30-round magazines. It's been the issue ammo for the Army Rifle and Pistol Championships.

    I'd pick it any day over Green Tip and M193 (unless I'm shooting it at my own steel targets -- they'll get torn up).

    My kid drawing M855A1 at the Army Championships in March:


  7. #27
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    Well I got some depressing news today. Apparently the government holds patents for the EPM and EPR, and they're making manufacturers under contract agree to not sell either one to any non government entities.

    So yea, that's what the pentagon thinks about your constitutional rights. Ironic, they use our tax dollars to develop a new round, which they then unconstitutionally deny to the very people who funded its development. By the people and for the people my asss.

    So it would seem that supply isn't the problem, which suggests we probably won't ever get much out on the open market. It's in the same boat as SS190 and Mk211. Completely legal, but tightly controlled by the people who have the patents on it, effectively keeping it out of reach.
    Last edited by okie; 04-02-19 at 11:20.

  8. #28
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    There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that mandates military-developed ammunition needs to be sold publicly. There was nothing stopping a civilian company from inventing something like the M855A1 and patenting it first, but nobody did. If the government prevented civilian companies from developing it in the first place, you might have a point. But that’s not the case. The military just happened to develop it first and used patent law. The constitution isn’t about forcing organizations into giving you stuff. You have two totally reasonable options as a civilian:. 1. Buy any number of fantastic rounds currently on the market. 2. Wait for the patents to expire and start buying M855A1.

    The M855A1 is a huge step up from M855, and is a great general issue round. But really, civilians have much better selection of ammunition.

    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Well I got some depressing news today. Apparently the government holds patents for the EPM and EPR, and they're making manufacturers under contract agree to not sell either one to any non government entities.

    So yea, that's what the pentagon thinks about your constitutional rights. Ironic, they use our tax dollars to develop a new round, which they then unconstitutionally deny to the very people who funded its development. By the people and for the people my asss.

    So it would seem that supply isn't the problem, which suggests we probably won't ever get much out on the open market. It's in the same boat as SS190 and Mk211. Completely legal, but tightly controlled by the people who have the patents on it, effectively keeping it out of reach.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PappyM3 View Post
    There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that mandates military-developed ammunition needs to be sold publicly. There was nothing stopping a civilian company from inventing something like the M855A1 and patenting it first, but nobody did. If the government prevented civilian companies from developing it in the first place, you might have a point. But that’s not the case. The military just happened to develop it first and used patent law. The constitution isn’t about forcing organizations into giving you stuff. You have two totally reasonable options as a civilian:. 1. Buy any number of fantastic rounds currently on the market. 2. Wait for the patents to expire and start buying M855A1.

    The M855A1 is a huge step up from M855, and is a great general issue round. But really, civilians have much better selection of ammunition.
    Except they used our money to develop said patents.

    How would you like it if your employees used your company's time, money, and resources to develop something, then not only went out and got a patent outside your company, but denied your company the opportunity to even use those patents, instead granting exclusive rights to your competitor?

    Because that's exactly what's happening in this case.

    You would be pissed about it, and you would sue those employees, and you would win.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Except they used our money to develop said patents.

    How would you like it if your employees used your company's time, money, and resources to develop something, then not only went out and got a patent outside your company, but denied your company the opportunity to even use those patents, instead granting exclusive rights to your competitor?

    Because that's exactly what's happening in this case.

    You would be pissed about it, and you would sue those employees, and you would win.
    So, you want everything the government creates available to you with no regard for keeping things out of the hands of foreign militaries?

    Also, your analogy is flawed, as government workers aren’t your employees. They’re employees of an organization that’s run by representatives you elect or those appointed by representatives you elect. They’re not developing things on your time. They report to the elected representatives, not you. Exactly how a democratic republic is supposed to function. And who is this competitor that the government is granting patent access to in your analogy? Do you also tell LEOs they can’t write you a ticket because they’re your employee and you pay their salary with taxes?

    Government intellectual property is no different than government equipment. Just because you pay taxes doesn’t mean you get to go down to the nearest Air Force Base and hop in an F-16. It doesn’t mean you can go to your fire station and borrow an axe. Taxes don’t mean you can do whatever you want with government property, whether it be equipment or intellectual.
    Last edited by PappyM3; 04-02-19 at 13:21.

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