US Army Selects B&T

**gamewarden** · 04-02-19, 07:12

Lowers are available for Glock and the Sig 320. These are very controllable to shoot and are high quality! I'm glad to see this. This will be sweet paired with the EBR round.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/04/01...ompact-weapon/

https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=oppo...keGEH_fZXR1gRw

**VIP3R 237** · 04-02-19, 07:45

Awesome win for B&T, and it’s entertaining to see the Sig fanboys lose their sh!t a little haha

**RetroRevolver77** · 04-02-19, 16:43

Originally Posted by VIP3R 237

Awesome win for B&T, and it’s entertaining to see the Sig fanboys lose their sh!t a little haha

SIG USA is garbage.

**jpmuscle** · 04-02-19, 16:45

I’m looking forward to picking up a pro model at some point

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**PeteMe** · 04-04-19, 03:02

The APC9K seems super cool but couldn’t they have just gotten some new HK MP5K PDWs which the US military already has experience with? I like seeing new firearms but it bugs me as a tax payer how much the US mil spends on just selecting a new firearm (let alone buying) that doesn’t do anything significantly better than the item it is replacing. I would be surprised if they didn’t spend more on selection then if they had just purchased enough new MP5Ks. I’m suspicious that a lot of the problems with US mil small-arms I’ve read about are because they are worn out from over use and not necessarily a shitty design. But the B&T guns are super cool, so go them!!! Though was sort of hoping the CZ Evo would get it as I have one.

**Wake27** · 04-04-19, 03:30

Originally Posted by PeteMe

The APC9K seems super cool but couldn’t they have just gotten some new HK MP5K PDWs which the US military already has experience with? I like seeing new firearms but it bugs me as a tax payer how much the US mil spends on just selecting a new firearm (let alone buying) that doesn’t do anything significantly better than the item it is replacing. I would be surprised if they didn’t spend more on selection then if they had just purchased enough new MP5Ks. I’m suspicious that a lot of the problems with US mil small-arms I’ve read about are because they are worn out from over use and not necessarily a shitty design. But the B&T guns are super cool, so go them!!! Though was sort of hoping the CZ Evo would get it as I have one.

Who in the army has experience with MP5s? Maybe some real old school SF guys but that’s probably about it.

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**TheAlsatian** · 04-04-19, 05:27

Originally Posted by Wake27

Who in the army has experience with MP5s? Maybe some real old school SF guys but that’s probably about it.

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A joint, but traditionally Army led command...we had them available at USSOCCENT in 2001-2. They were more common with the Naval units and we had just come under command of a Navy Admiral.

**Wake27** · 04-04-19, 05:41

Originally Posted by TheAlsatian

A joint, but traditionally Army led command...we had them available at USSOCCENT in 2001-2. They were more common with the Naval units and we had just come under command of a Navy Admiral.

Right, so a joint special operations command that included NSW from almost 20 years ago. That’s exactly my point - none of those guys are the ones that are going to be part of these PSDs, the supply and parts systems are wildly different, and none of the institutional knowledge remains within the Army.

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**JoshNC** · 04-04-19, 13:50

Originally Posted by PeteMe

The APC9K seems super cool but couldn’t they have just gotten some new HK MP5K PDWs which the US military already has experience with? I like seeing new firearms but it bugs me as a tax payer how much the US mil spends on just selecting a new firearm (let alone buying) that doesn’t do anything significantly better than the item it is replacing. I would be surprised if they didn’t spend more on selection then if they had just purchased enough new MP5Ks. I’m suspicious that a lot of the problems with US mil small-arms I’ve read about are because they are worn out from over use and not necessarily a shitty design. But the B&T guns are super cool, so go them!!! Though was sort of hoping the CZ Evo would get it as I have one.

I love the MP5 and MP5K. I never plan on parting with either of mine. With that said, they have their detractions. The glaring detractions include the lack of a last round bolt hold open, ergonomics that lag behind the M4 and other contemporary designs, a terrible extractor/spring design, require separate optic mounts, among others. The b&t APC9 has better ergos, is truly ambidextrous, has a last round bolt hold open, has ease of optic mounting, has a more reliable extractor design. Additionally it is far easier to manage at the armored level than the MP5 series. It eclipses the MP5 handily.

**PeteMe** · 04-04-19, 23:46

My point wasn’t that the APC9K may not be better but that the military selection processes are often convoluted and outrageously expensive. Thus, unless this particular SMG selection process was reasonably efficient (which I feel is unlikely though I don’t know for sure), was it worth taking the time and, more importantly money, to find a better mouse trap? Although there may not be many active duty US military personnel with MP5/k experience, the US military does have a lot of experience with the MP5/k platform relative to any other current SMG. For example, even if we stopped using the M2 BMG for 20 years, we would still have a large body of knowledge about how the weapon works (unless all electronic or written historical records were lost, which is not likely) if we wanted to go back to it. The MP5 works like a champ, although it does have some flaws, and is the gold standard by which other SMGs are judged. The APC9K has some nice features the MP5K does not and the APC9 I handled seemed beautifully made. As somebody interested in military firearms I think it is really cool that B&T got the contract. I just hope it didn’t cost us millions to make the decision.