How long did it take to get used to RDS on your CCW pistol?

[MountainRaven]

I run with some great people and one former member of the best anti terror unit in the USA always carries an RMR pistol and his eyes aren't bad yet. He called a RMR pistol cheating.

"Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair."
-Col. John Dean "Jeff" Cooper†, USMC-ret, Guns & Ammo magazine, 2002

[dwhitehorne]

Maybe off topic but I’m curious of the red dot CCW aspect. I’ve been carrying a gun for the USG for 31 years now. I’m greatly interested in pistol red dots as I’m getting old and can’t focus on the sights anymore. Any switch to a RDS on a pistol would be a dramatic change for me. The red dot on a rifle is faster up close and just as accurate if not a little more so than irons at a distance. From what I’m reading the pistol with a red dot seems to be fairly even or maybe slower up close but really shines at a distance. For a CCW does the benefit of the red dot with the 25+yard shot really bring an advantage? At 75 to 100 feet from the threat does the non-LEO cover and evacuate or close on the threat with the red dot?

Also my issue P320 will always have irons but I can carry a red dot off duty if I want. Having no experience with a RDS on a pistol do you think one can switch back and forth between irons and a RDS guns. I preach at work under stress we always revert back to our basis of knowledge. I haven’t made the jump yet because I’m not sure I can undo 40+ years of shooting. David

[Mick Boon]

Once found the dot is perfect for me. It's the time it takes to find it (and the dot) that spoils it. Have you considered a laser ?

[YVK]

From what I’m reading the pistol with a red dot seems to be fairly even or maybe slower up close but really shines at a distance. For a CCW does the benefit of the red dot with the 25+yard shot really bring an advantage? At 75 to 100 feet from the threat does the non-LEO cover and evacuate or close on the threat with the red dot?

Also my issue P320 will always have irons but I can carry a red dot off duty if I want. Having no experience with a RDS on a pistol do you think one can switch back and forth between irons and a RDS guns.

First, a disclaimer: I am not anything tactical, I am not SME, I am just a guy who reads and trains some. With that out,

1. Yes, you're slightly faster with irons on close and large targets.
2. The difference diminishes with practice, and at some point of RDS proficiency the net effect is that RDS is fast enough on close and large targets, and better on everything else.
3. A lot of CCW and tac trainers define appropriate human target zone not as a nebulous "COM" but as a 4-5 inch circle on the chest and head. With that target size, it is at least a wash between the two, if not faster with RDS.
4. Tom Givens, in his 60+ students' defensive shootings, has described shots at distances and situations where RDS would clearly be superior.
5. Yes, switching back and forth is not a problem. I still carry iron sighted pistol pretty regularly. After some time with RDS I have eventually weaned myself off the sharp and crisp front sight pic on every goddamn shot I took with irons. I am learning to shoot with a target focus with irons and I think it is a best kept secret in fast and accurate shooting with iron sights.

[MegademiC]

Maybe off topic but I’m curious of the red dot CCW aspect. I’ve been carrying a gun for the USG for 31 years now. I’m greatly interested in pistol red dots as I’m getting old and can’t focus on the sights anymore. Any switch to a RDS on a pistol would be a dramatic change for me. The red dot on a rifle is faster up close and just as accurate if not a little more so than irons at a distance. From what I’m reading the pistol with a red dot seems to be fairly even or maybe slower up close but really shines at a distance. For a CCW does the benefit of the red dot with the 25+yard shot really bring an advantage? At 75 to 100 feet from the threat does the non-LEO cover and evacuate or close on the threat with the red dot?

Also my issue P320 will always have irons but I can carry a red dot off duty if I want. Having no experience with a RDS on a pistol do you think one can switch back and forth between irons and a RDS guns. I preach at work under stress we always revert back to our basis of knowledge. I haven’t made the jump yet because I’m not sure I can undo 40+ years of shooting. David

Rds is faster and more accurate (or equal) at all distances for me.
The closer the target, the less the benefit, because sights are less important.
I do some sort of practice daily.
For situations i am in that I havent practiced (offhand around a barricade), i just use my sights in my peripherals, still target focused.

I really think it depends on the person and dedication to it.

Honestly, if you’re hesitant and doubtful, you probably shouldn’t do it because you’re setting yourself up for failure.

[Defaultmp3]

Once found the dot is perfect for me. It's the time it takes to find it (and the dot) that spoils it. Have you considered a laser ?

A laser by itself is less versatile than an RDS, due to lack of range outdoors during the day. Even with a green laser, with a class 3R, you're pretty limited on a bright day to probably 7 yards at best.

[NongShim]

The key to a speedy transition from irons to mini red dot is two-fold.

First, commit to a sight footprint and have your slide cut by a professional. If you opt for a MOS, CORE, “I’m afraid of commitment” slide or some top of the slide rear sight dovetail garbage, you’ll be one of those guys saying that it took you 22 months and 10000 rounds of practice to figure it out or you gave it up because “I’m better with irons.”

Second, get suppressor height irons sights to cowitness with your dot.

The reason most people have a hard time is because the dot sits way too high compared to where the normal sight picture is that you’ve practiced a million times fry firing. The combination of low-as-possible mini red dot from having the slide cut for that specific type of sight, and irons to help with your natural process of gun presentation will make the learning curve very short.

Transition to dot will take a couple days of dry firing and isn’t hard to go back and forth to irons/RDS because the angle of presentation is the same. I have no problem going back and forth. When I first tried a rear sight replacement mount it was impossible and I thought it was a stupid gimmick.

[Delta-3]

I guess I'm a fluke. I had no "transition" time to get used to my red dot. When I raise the pistol the dot is right there above my front site.
I find that I'm faster on target & more accurate at any range. I hesitated for a long time about mounting a RD but I was foolish to wait so long.
Irons were getting blurry after 56 years. I could still hit out to 25yds but it's mostly years of training that made it viable. I'm now a major fan of them. I have two more waiting to get milled.

My EDC M&P 2.0 compact w/ Trijicon 3.25" type 06 gen 2.

[SlimMan]

My first experience with a red dot (G19 with an RMR) began a year ago after shooting iron sighted handguns for 50+ years. Picking it up and shooting the RMR equipped pistol was no problem at all, however, drawing from a holster and quickly acquiring the red dot took some effort. For me, presentation is the key to quickly pick up the red dot. If I draw and raise the weapon to what is essentially a high-ready position and then extending my arms the dot was rather quick to pick up. But even at that, I probably went through several hundred rounds before I felt like I was doing a decent job in rapidly seeing the dot.

[SeriousStudent]

A friend is a poobah with Aimpoint USA. He had a G34 equipped with an ACRO that he has been demonstrating for law enforcement and other organizations.

He let me shoot a magazine or two through it back in October. I'm sold. I'm going to have a G45 milled for an ACRO next month when they come out.

I'm with YVK and NongShim - I'm going to do a LOT of presentations with it, as well as range sessions. I'm also signed up for Scott Jedlinki's RDS class in August. I'll be shooting Tom Given's Master Instructor class in November with it, doing multiple days of low light.

Paul Gardner is a friend, and will be spinning up a new training company this fall. He runs an RDS like a boss, and has zero problems going back and forth between it and irons on a G19. I watched him shoot a perfect score with an RDS G19 at Tom Given's Advanced Pistol Instructor class, then immediately shoot it again with an iron-sighted G19. Perfect score again. We've talked about an RDS-specific class.

Yeah, it can be done. Like anything else, ya gotta put in the work. Will, you know all about putting in the work. My eyeballs are older than yours, so I'll let you know how it goes.