Consumerism and the AR15 - Are we here to shoot or to buy?

**Wake27** · 04-15-19, 21:08

I don’t get to shoot nearly as much as I like, so I buy shit instead. I should dry fire more and buy less, but I don’t know if I’ll ever see that as anything other than work. And I just like buying shit. That being said, you bring up a very good point about NODs. My problem is that if I’m spending more than $50, I want the best. After having played with PVS-15s and even a set of 31s, the 14s don’t seem worth the money while the nicer shit is on a level that I don’t know I’ll ever get to. Not logical, but that’s where I’m at.

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**stank** · 04-15-19, 22:11

Good post. I have 2 ARs that I got set up like I want and really don't see me buying more. I do like free float rails because I have seen shots go high at 200 - 300 yards when someone rest the end of a barrel (not handguards) on a barricade/prop. One less thing to worry about. Can't convince the wife to get nods when there are other life priorities with the family. I would rather spend my time shooting competitions than buying guns, it's seriously the most fun I think one could have with guns while building shooting skills. Buy less guns, shoot more and enjoy life!

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**m4hk33** · 04-16-19, 01:51

honestly, I think its mostly to buy stuff.

far too often it is like pulling teeth to get freedom loving 2nd Amendment absolutist to actually go to a local range. you know the modt vocal at work or on social media about Obama wanting to take your guns, Molan Labe mutha ****er. Its almost impossible to get that person to the range on a nice day. 5 degree's and snowing sideways, never going to happen.

I think that many on these forums are caught up in the consumerism that you mentioned, be in your wife having 50 pairs of shoes and purses or a guy having the same amount of guns, or random people rushing to get the next smart phone or trade in their 3 year old truck for a new model with a gimick like wireless charging.

I too find myself wanting the latest and the greatest to the detriment of not completing some pretty nice guns,

right now i have 8 rifles/carbines that are in various states of completion
10.5, LMT MRP
16 LMT MLC
13.5 LMT MWS
20 6.5CM LMT MWS
FN Scar H
CZ Scorpion
Sig 556
PSA A4

of those rifles, the 4 LMT's are my go to rifles and are the most enjoyable to shoot. I plan selling the Scar and the A4 clone because they honestly dont do anything special for me, both are great rifles for different reasons but kind of serve no purpose other than taking about space in the safe. I have had the A4 clone out once. The same thing with the Sig, the SCAR is a little newer but i can feel it sliping into that same role of cool, but not that cool.

So the next time i get back to the states i am going thin the heard and finish the 4 LMT's and have them all set up exactly how i want, Pick up another silencer, upgrade a couple scopes. maybe RMR a glock 19, i have 4 to 5 grand tied up in shit that i dont use and I am still ****ing around loading off of a single stage press, its works but even i sometimes shake my head. I really needed a ****ing PSA A4. SMDH...

is that going to be the last of my rifles, no of course not,but am now to the point that i would rather have fewer high end stuff than more stuff thats not complete

**arptsprt** · 04-16-19, 06:21

The amount of money I’ve spent on all things ARs over the past decade plus makes me shudder.

Now, I have more ARs than I can count on two and 1/2 hands (and guns in general) - more than I’ll ever need or want, but yet I still buy shit. Why? Partly an obsessed sickness I’ve come to realize, but mainly because it’s fun and I enjoy it. I’m not an AR builder. Not my thing nor do I have the desire. I’m proficient in knowing how they work and how to maintain them, but I buy good, quality stuff from the start. I shoot about five a lot, the others not so much.

I’m fortunate enough to be in a great financial place in my life which helps. Shooting is my most fun and desired hobby followed closely by flyfishing. I also put a lot of time into training and proficiency.

That said, I have reached a point with my ARs that I’m buying less and less stuff to adorn them with. I say this as I just threw down $1600 for a new Vortex Razor Gen2 E 1-6 and Scalarworks mount... for an SBR... replacing a perfectly good T1. And I swore I’d never put a 1.5 pound LPVO on an SBR... Why’d I do it? It’s the rage, man! Seriously, my aging eyes and some struggles in low light are why.

The night vision discussion is interesting and relatable. A few of my shooting group are getting into NV. “Why have all those ARs you don’t shoot, instead of NV?” they ask? I see their point but if I’m buying NV, I’ll buy good ones which is about a $7000 price tag. One just doesn’t use NV. One needs to train to be proficient. Finding a viable location and someone with knowledge to train us isn’t very feasible. And while the cool factor and tactical advantage is there, the likelihood of needing NV for real in my world is very, very low. I’d rather buy $7000 worth of ammo versus the NVD.

End of the day I don’t see what I do any differently than my friends with other hobbies. I have a few friends who do the car thing. The time and money they spend tinkering with or racing their cars is equal, or the track thing with one friend, far exceeding my AR addiction on an annual basis. Or other friends who snowmobile. Every few years they are buying new $18,000 sleds to have the latest and greatest, then they travel all over the region to partake in their hobby. Time and money.

End of the day, to each their own.

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**Renegade04** · 04-16-19, 07:56

Well, I may not have 49 ARs, but I am only a few away from that number. Some of my ARs are safe queens as they are collectible Colts. Many of my ARs are military clones (Vietnam to present). Several of my other ARs are general purpose types and a few are SPRs. I have a few workhorses and one of these is my SHTF AR. Like some,, I fall into the category of a collector and shooter. I have a passion for the platform and have had for 40 years since I was issued my first M16A1 back in 1978. I have built right at 85 ARs in the past 15 years and I am not done yet. I get enjoyment out of building something and having it work and work well. I do not spend a great amount of time with any one of my ARs, but I am proficient. I have the military training that gave me the skills to know how to use them.

**PappyM3** · 04-16-19, 08:32

Originally Posted by Eurodriver

... Why are people buying $440 DD RIS systems? Why is anyone not using Nightvision buying rails at all?

....

You need it for accuracy? "Free floating" precision? Who here has actually quantified the amount of shift a non-ff barrel produces at say...400 yards? Even if you're using a wicked tight sling - it isn't much, I promise

...

The Marine Corps shooting team has tested the effects on POI of weight on a non-free float barrel. It’s significant and you don’t even need to sling up to see them.

Standing with rifle on a barrier with hand between rifle and barrier:
M16: 11” shift at 200 yards
M4: 4” shift at 200 yards

Double kneeling with rifle on soft surface (hand on barrier):
M16: 8” shift at 200 yards
M4: 4” shift at 200 yards

Double kneeling with rifle on hard surface(directly on barrier):
M16: 20” shift at 200 yards
M4: 8” shift at 200 yards

So, at a minimum with an M4 length non-free float handguard, you’re looking at an 8” shift at 400 yards by mixing up how you hold/support the rifle. That could easily mean the difference between a hit or a miss, especially if you’re already shooting 2-4 MOA with a combat carbine. Go out to a longer M16 length handguard and you’re looking at a 40” shift at 400 yards!!

The Marine Corps Facebook page has their findings in pictures. They also tested different weights on the sling swivel (2.5lb-15lbs).

It equates to ~1” shift at 200 yards per pound added to the end of an M4 handguard.
~2” shift at 200 yards per pound added to the end of an M16 handguard.

I’m sure one can reduce these numbers by trying to gently rest their rifle on support, but then you’re not as stable.

So yes, free float rails provide significant accuracy advantages. I get the intent of your post and largely agree with it. But you should do more research on things before making claims.

**RobertTheTexan** · 04-16-19, 09:09

Originally Posted by m4hk33

honestly, I think its mostly to buy stuff.

far too often it is like pulling teeth to get freedom loving 2nd Amendment absolutist to actually go to a local range. you know the modt vocal at work or on social media about Obama wanting to take your guns, Molan Labe mutha ****er. Its almost impossible to get that person to the range on a nice day. 5 degree's and snowing sideways, never going to happen.

I have come to firmly believe, the more 2A/Don’t Tread on Me/Punisher logo shit I see, the less that individual shoots. It’s like they replace training with being an advertisement for the pro gun community. Also the same people have no concept of keeping a low profile. So the more pro 2A stickers the less the person actually shoots rings true in my AO as well.

So the next time i get back to the states i am going thin the heard and finish the 4 LMT's and have them all set up exactly how i want...

...is that going to be the last of my rifles, no of course not,but am now to the point that i would rather have fewer high end stuff than more stuff thats not complete

Have you heard the analogy - “Guns are like dandelions — pull one and two grown in its place.”??

Probably not, because I just made that quote up while thinking about your post, especially the part about thinning the herd.
I believe in the “one is none and two is one” philosophy but try to balance that vs. going bat-ass crazy at the same time. But for sure when when I get rid of one AR, two more might magically appear and then I’m right back to where I started.

A vicious cycle, so be forewarned.

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**Doc Safari** · 04-16-19, 10:20

I'm always in favor of KISS, but it's good to have spares, too. One or two to shoot and one or two as spares. If one looks at "need" instead of "want", the accessories stop accumulating pretty fast.