The case for: Shotguns designed before the Great War are better than anything since

[utahjeepr]

So would an Ithaca 37 count? They are based on a pre WW1 design by that same JMB fellow even though they were not produced by Ithaca until, well, 1937.

Maybe I'm just partial to "that" fellows designs.

[Esq.]

OK to bring this one back I hope, as it seems to have generated some interest.

The Winchester 1911...... shotgun. Many elements in its design are the way they are simply to avoid violating patents held by that one guy.... John something.....

....and all the more fascinating for it. Long recoil but not of the Remington Model 11 design, not exactly anyway. Hard to believe now that a simple thing like a charging handle on the side was patent-protected, but it was. Hence the funky fore-end plunger charging on the Winchester WSL rifles, and on the Winchester 1911 shotgun (same designer did all these), you charge it by grasping a knurled portion on the barrel and stroking it back. Different, eh!?

If you search it and read up on it you'll see they called it the "Widowmaker". Now having handled one a bit I think that is complete bunk.

Been offered several in trade at gunshows over the years. Turned them all down. Whether the Widowmaker thing is real or not, you'll own the thing for life because nobody would buy it.

[Ned Christiansen]

Yes,the Ithaca counts, in my mind. It descends from the Remington Model 17, which had some JMB patents in it.

Agreed, few people would buy a Winchester Model 11.... now or then. Production ceased in I think 1926. The cocking action is a turnoff even without knowledge of the widowmaker myth. There are a few other idiosyncrasies in its operation that need to be got-used-to and takedown is pretty inconvenient. The front sight though is unique and superior. A cylinder on top of a thin blade, same sight picture as a bead but it's up off the barrel, making it quick to pick up and giving more options in adjusting your shot immediately to go a little higher or a little lower.

[jsbhike]

Made me think of a USOG video. Search his channel name along with shotguns named in this thread and odds are he has a video on it.