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Thread: The case for: Shotguns designed before the Great War are better than anything since

  1. #21
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    So would an Ithaca 37 count? They are based on a pre WW1 design by that same JMB fellow even though they were not produced by Ithaca until, well, 1937.

    Maybe I'm just partial to "that" fellows designs.
    Go Ukraine! Piss on the Russian dead.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen View Post
    OK to bring this one back I hope, as it seems to have generated some interest.

    The Winchester 1911...... shotgun. Many elements in its design are the way they are simply to avoid violating patents held by that one guy.... John something.....

    ....and all the more fascinating for it. Long recoil but not of the Remington Model 11 design, not exactly anyway. Hard to believe now that a simple thing like a charging handle on the side was patent-protected, but it was. Hence the funky fore-end plunger charging on the Winchester WSL rifles, and on the Winchester 1911 shotgun (same designer did all these), you charge it by grasping a knurled portion on the barrel and stroking it back. Different, eh!?

    If you search it and read up on it you'll see they called it the "Widowmaker". Now having handled one a bit I think that is complete bunk.
    Been offered several in trade at gunshows over the years. Turned them all down. Whether the Widowmaker thing is real or not, you'll own the thing for life because nobody would buy it.
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  3. #23
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    Yes,the Ithaca counts, in my mind. It descends from the Remington Model 17, which had some JMB patents in it.

    Agreed, few people would buy a Winchester Model 11.... now or then. Production ceased in I think 1926. The cocking action is a turnoff even without knowledge of the widowmaker myth. There are a few other idiosyncrasies in its operation that need to be got-used-to and takedown is pretty inconvenient. The front sight though is unique and superior. A cylinder on top of a thin blade, same sight picture as a bead but it's up off the barrel, making it quick to pick up and giving more options in adjusting your shot immediately to go a little higher or a little lower.

  4. #24
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    Made me think of a USOG video. Search his channel name along with shotguns named in this thread and odds are he has a video on it.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen View Post
    I'll bet I've shot a 97 more than 97% of 97 owners and I would say no, not at all. Cowboy Action shooters are probably getting more use out of 97's than anyone in the last seventy-five years. I don't really know what the CAS '97 hot setup is, I imagine there are guys serving that segment that work on them a bit and are good at it.

    The 97's ejector is not much different from most-- just a 'thing" in the way of the case's rearward travel as it's being extracted, which bumps it out. They have been known to break but are far from breakage-prone, and anyway, very easily replaced.... downside, held on with a screw. There are, I believe, two iterations.

    For the most positive of positive ejection, Ithaca 37 or BPS! Cases are brutishly pushed the hell out, not bumped in a manner that depends upon a swift and manly backstroke (although I feel that's advisable in any circumstance).
    I’ve set up a HUGE pile of 97s for CAS. The ejector spring is the only weak point if I convert the left extractor to a coil spring. Properly maintained, I fun them faster than semi auto and they’re much easier to combat load because of the bigger ejection port. Only a fool would shoot a 97 stock for CAS or defense. Lol they just need som quality polish work and some mechanical type ‘updates’ and they’re good to go. I have like 5 of them. Lol.. newer guns are more cost effective but you can’t beat that old school craftsmanship.
    "An opinion solicited does not equal one freely voiced," Al Swearengen, Deadwood 1877.

  6. #26
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    The Winchester Model 12 is my all-time favorite shotgun, it is what I grew up shooting. The first time I shot a 12ga pump with a disconnector (Mossberg 500) I thought it was broken because it would not slam fire. LOL
    Gettin' down innagrass.
    Let's Go Brandon!

  7. #27
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    They are broken if the have a disconnector…it makes them stupid slow to shoot. Lol.

  8. #28
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    I understand you're talking about milled classics but I do like a Mossberg 590. No lifter in the way of loading.

    Only shotgun I have besides a double 28 ga.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    I understand you're talking about milled classics but I do like a Mossberg 590. No lifter in the way of loading.

    Only shotgun I have besides a double 28 ga.
    Point. I like my 590A1 as well. I’m starting to play with a Remington V3 also.

  10. #30
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    Had a nice 97 I used for a while shooting CAS. Played with pretty hard and it never fumbled. Sold it in a cash driven purge moons ago. Only older shotgun I have left is a 1930's Stevens 620. Very nice, but you're right about the '97 being a very fast and easy gun to fill back up. Lifter on the Stevens can be a PITA. I do think the 520/620 takedown design is slick. Much better than the 97 and Model 12 in that regard.
    - Jeff

    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” ― George Orwell, 1984

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