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Thread: A Conversation About Firearms in America - Talking Points

  1. #1
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    A Conversation About Firearms in America - Talking Points

    I mentioned this idea in the training and tactics thread, thought it was worth posting here.

    I think many members of the firearms community have something in common with a lot of Christians: they want to tell others and talk about their passion, but don't know how.

    The NSSF has put together a series of infographics on firearms entitled 'Gun Crimes Plummet even as Gun Sales Rise.' You can find and download them here: https://www.nssf.org/media/infographics/

    They also have a section of firearms safety and education literature which you can download at this location: https://www.nssf.org/safety/safety-c...on-literature/

    I'm an NSSF member, but I didn't have to login in download any of the items.

    Here is the action plan I'm going to try to implement:

    1. Get the local gun club involved. This may be difficult, because, as most of you that belong to gun clubs know, the general attitude of club members is they just want to show up and shoot, leaving the work to someone else.

    2. Pick a 'neutral' location. A public library usually has conference/meeting rooms that can be reserved. Your community may have a community building/auditorium or a senior center.

    3. Announce the event, something like "The Prairie Wings Gun Club Would Like to Host an Open Conversation About Firearms in out Community." Leaving flyers, or taping up announcement on gun store doors isn't enough, we already have those folks. Local radio stations will often give air time to public events, if it's a club endeavor, maybe pony up for a billboard.

    4. Invite media. Let's be realistic, an event at the public library may not get a hundred folks, but if you get a newspaper reporter there, it is an easy story.

    5. Tailor the message. Take the NSSF stuff and add local statistics.

    6. Choose the right presenters. The overall moderator should be someone who is unflappable and quick on their feet. In our area I'd include someone to talk about the 4H and Boy Scout shooting programs as well as the high school trap program. I'd also include representatives of competitive/sporting disciplines to give the 'golf with a gun' outlook. Local NRA Instructors might also be good sources. Don't try to one-man-band it.

    7. Have materials and resources available - firearms safety in the home brochures, NSSF Kids Contract, business cards/brochures for trainers and ranges. If a gun club sponsors the talk they should have a FREE introductory firearms class.

    8. Rinse and Repeat.
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

    “You are responsible for your actions, but the world doesn’t turn around you, so it’s important that you find something bigger than yourself to work for, a way for you to make a difference.” - Drew Dix, MOH VN '68

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    Honestly I feel the need to explain my gun rights about as much as the average black guy feels the need to explain his right to vote.

    And I'm not looking for converts nor am I interested in doing missionary work on behalf of guns. I don't think everyone should have a gun. I believe everyone has a right to own a gun, so long as they aren't prohibited persons, but I'd say probably 50% of the population are people I wouldn't encourage to own a gun, they simply aren't responsible enough. I can think of 12 year old kids I'd prefer to train than a lot of grown adults I know.

    Also a lot of people are content to respect rights so long as they are not bothered. If we start being too insistent on getting the message to everyone it will be about as well received as porn companies wanting to have an open discussion about freedom of speech.

    Of course all of this is zip code dependent, in CA porn companies probably do host discussions of freedom of speech. In TX gun clubs probably do host discussions on the second amendment. But in most cases, those who are interested in the subject already know everything you are going to say and those who are sick of hearing about it are more annoyed.

    Hell there are gun owners right here who won't have an NRA membership because they are tired of being solicited by phone and mail for donations.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Hell there are gun owners right here who won't have an NRA membership because they are tired of being solicited by phone and mail for donations.
    As usual, you make good points. I have ulterior motives, I'm getting tired of shooting against the same 6 guys, need to generate more interest, I have no desire to travel to shoot fun matches.

    BTW, with you on the NRA, unfortunately, GOA seems to be following in their footsteps with mailings asking me to donate to support this case and that case. Seems the more you send, the more they want.

    ETA - look for a pm sometime today or tomorrow on another matter.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 04-18-19 at 16:18.
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford

    “You are responsible for your actions, but the world doesn’t turn around you, so it’s important that you find something bigger than yourself to work for, a way for you to make a difference.” - Drew Dix, MOH VN '68

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    As usual, you make good points. I have ulterior motives, I'm getting tired of shooting against the same 6 guys, need to generate more interest, I have no desire to travel to shoot fun matches.

    BTW, with you on the NRA, unfortunately, GOA seems to be following in their footsteps with mailings asking me to donate to support this case and that case. Seems the more you send, the more they want.

    ETA - look for a pm sometime today or tomorrow on another matter.
    If you need new blood for your shooting club, start a FB page or similar online social media. Free advertising basically. Host a few videos, make it seem interesting and let people find you. If you go looking for people, you probably won't get the ones you want.

    Let's use religion as an example again. If anyone really believe, if they really care and want to do something about whatever spiritual concerns they may have, rest assured they have heard of Jesus and they know where to look for him. Churches aren't exactly the most inconspicuous building in town. There is no reason to go knock on doors, everyone has heard the good news.

    In fact if I were religious and ran a church, I wouldn't go looking for anyone. If they can't find me, they probably can't be saved if they are unwilling to make that simple minimum effort. More importantly, if they can't motivate themselves off of the couch after googling "closest church to me" then I don't want them in the building infecting other people who are trying to actually be saved.

    It's a lot like a halfway house with 10 people trying to kick heroin. If one screws up and decides he needs to do heroin more than he needs to stay alive, he tends to take down 4 or 5 other people in the house who "might" have made it otherwise if his weak ass wasn't there to take out half of the crew.

    Same for guns and shooting. Anyone who is serious about shooting, who you would actually want to shoot with, will take the time to ask around and / or search facebook to find a club that offers what they are looking for. If you go beating the bushes looking for recruits, you are going to find the "least effort" people.

    The exception to the above is of course kids who are new to shooting and things like that. Might want to have one night where you offer free "basic training" to new shooters.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Honestly I feel the need to explain my gun rights about as much as the average black guy feels the need to explain his right to vote.

    And I'm not looking for converts nor am I interested in doing missionary work on behalf of guns. I don't think everyone should have a gun. I believe everyone has a right to own a gun, so long as they aren't prohibited persons, but I'd say probably 50% of the population are people I wouldn't encourage to own a gun, they simply aren't responsible enough. I can think of 12 year old kids I'd prefer to train than a lot of grown adults I know.

    Also a lot of people are content to respect rights so long as they are not bothered. If we start being too insistent on getting the message to everyone it will be about as well received as porn companies wanting to have an open discussion about freedom of speech.

    Of course all of this is zip code dependent, in CA porn companies probably do host discussions of freedom of speech. In TX gun clubs probably do host discussions on the second amendment. But in most cases, those who are interested in the subject already know everything you are going to say and those who are sick of hearing about it are more annoyed.

    Hell there are gun owners right here who won't have an NRA membership because they are tired of being solicited by phone and mail for donations.
    I wholeheartedly agree.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    As usual, you make good points. I have ulterior motives, I'm getting tired of shooting against the same 6 guys, need to generate more interest, I have no desire to travel to shoot fun matches.

    BTW, with you on the NRA, unfortunately, GOA seems to be following in their footsteps with mailings asking me to donate to support this case and that case. Seems the more you send, the more they want.

    ETA - look for a pm sometime today or tomorrow on another matter.
    Last time the NRA called me, I asked to be removed from the call/mailing list. I’ve not received anything except renewal reminders since. I’ve spoken with others who had the same results. Could not have been easier.

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    As usual, Steyr is a sensible guy with well articulated points. However, I have to disagree on this one. Sitting back with a sense of righteous indignation that the other side would dare question our inalienable rights and mentally deciding that the matter is already obvious and already decided is what has led us to this point. For evil to prosper, good men need only stand by and do nothing. For years I stood by, knowing I was in the right, and figuring that good sense and the law of our land would certainly prevail. For the last 40 years I've watched many of our rights get eroded, like the '94 AWB, while seeing significant gains in other areas, like CCW. In the 80s it was pure fantasy to think that a "regular" citizen would be allowed to walk around town with a hidden, loaded gun on their person. Fantasy became reality when some forward thinking law makers made a dream come true in FL. Man, you should have heard all "Chicken Littles" running around screaming about how the sky is falling, the sky is falling. There was going to be a Wild West shoot out over every fender bender, neighbor would shoot neighbor over every minor dispute, and the streets were going to run red with American blood... I thought it was stupid to say such things back then, and time has proven that it was even more stupid than I initially thought.

    Back to my point: I no longer wish to sit back and watch with horror the descent into communist rule. I will no longer listen to a moron repeating the ant-gun talking point of the day and not correct them. I don't care who hates me because of it. I will not stand by while the MSM and crooked, tyrannical, treasonous, commie politicians try to ruin our country and defy "the people" who are supposed to rule this land. We are in a slow fight to the death whether we like it or not. I didn't ask for this fight, and I don't want to be in this fight, but we ARE in this fight. The method of combat, for the time being, is words and emotions. The more combatants we can win over to our side, the RIGHT side, the more likely our inevitable victory becomes, and the sooner it comes. We will not win anyone over if the MSM and the commies are the only ones talking. Somebody is going to have to get up off the couch and explain to the ignorant masses why the steaming pile of shit being spoon fed to us by every "news" outlet across the country and the world every day is a pack of lies. They (the masses...) are bombarded from all sides every day by these lies. I've heard members of my own family state things like, "Well who really needs and assault weapon?" I took a few minutes to tactfully, diplomatically, and intelligently explain who needs one and why, and now they don't say that stupid wrong-ass shit any more. Now they correct other people who say that stupid wrong-ass shit. There is a small army of people in my wake spreading the CORRECT, factual gun information. I tell them, they tell people in their sphere of influence, those people tell their people, and eventually Trump gets elected instead of Hillary, and we've got two new conservatives who actually follow the Constitution on our Supreme Court, and four new conservative judges on the whacko ultra-liberal Ninth Circuit.

    The time to sit by stoically has passed. The time to take the high road is gone. The time to turn the other cheek while our enemies land slap after slap after slap has left us. I will not be quiet. I will not be bullied into compliance. I will not be threatened. Instead, I will argue, I will refute, and I will educate. I will fight. The info we've been given by John Lott, Bill Whittle, Dennis Prager, and so many others has been invaluable and instrumental in winning people over with the simple irrefutable truth. Have I made enemies? Sure. Well... sort of. They were already my enemies. My fighting back simply let them know we were enemies. I care more about the deposit I left in the toilet this morning than I care about those enemies of freedom. Who I do care about are the millions upon millions of good people in the middle of these two warring sides who mean well and want to do the right thing, but they've been lied to and mislead about what is "right". I consider it my duty as an American to save our Republic, one good person at a time. I never served in our military. I'm a little embarrassed and ashamed about that fact. I never fought and sacrificed for our country. Well I'm fighting now. Information like what 26 Inf posted here is my ammo. The more ammo I carry, the better. I'd get a lot further a lot faster if intelligent people like Steyr would join me in this fight. I don't want to spend time explaining my guns rights any more than the next guy. I agree that I shouldn't have to, but look where that attitude has gotten us. Time for a new tactic.

    Thanks for the info 26.
    NRA Life Member.

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    I don't think at this point you're going to change any adult minds. So when you meet at the Library you're more likely to be met with screaming Socialists and their friends the Media. There will be closed minds and open mouths and you will have provided the anti gun lunatic fringe a soapbox to stand on as they scream and cry and tear at their clothes in faux rage.
    You're more likely to change someones mind about abortion than your Second Amendment rights.
    If you want to make things right take a kid to the range once a month. Change one mind at a time and if every shooter did this, it would alleviate the need to try and explain this to an closed minded socialist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    I don't think at this point you're going to change any adult minds. So when you meet at the Library you're more likely to be met with screaming Socialists and their friends the Media. There will be closed minds and open mouths and you will have provided the anti gun lunatic fringe a soapbox to stand on as they scream and cry and tear at their clothes in faux rage.
    You're more likely to change someones mind about abortion than your Second Amendment rights.
    If you want to make things right take a kid to the range once a month. Change one mind at a time and if every shooter did this, it would alleviate the need to try and explain this to an closed minded socialist.
    Your speculation is incorrect. I've changed lots of minds, and watched other people do it to.

    Can't win if you don't play.

    Is it frustrating at times? Yes. Do I fail at it frequently? Yes, I think. Many have argued vehemently initially and then come back later and admitted that I'd opened their eyes to some things they'd never considered. Sometimes that planted seed takes a while to germinate.

    I have no illusion of changing the mind of every radical. The vast majority of people are not radicals. They are reasonable and intelligent, and they've been duped and lied to since birth in some cases. I find they get pretty mad when they realize it. Mad at the people who've been lying to them.
    NRA Life Member.

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    You have much more patience than I do then. When someone opens their mouth and stupid comes out that's one thing, but when they demand I comply and go along with "stupid", I'm done with them.
    I literally wouldn't piss on them if they ran by me while on fire, so I'm certainly not going to make them comfortable while they negotiate my rights with me.

    I will stand by taking a non-shooter or a kid to the range, specifically someone without the corrosive level of vitriol anti's seem to have made famous.

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