8 months of observations working at gun shop/in-door range.

[WillBrink]

I always go with...

"So your basic premise is that George Bush (43), who we generally accept is a D student, orchestrated and executed the largest, most elaborate and complex conspiracy in the history of modern times and did so in such a comprehensive way that he either obligated every politician into a position of participation or fear or retribution and nobody in credible media is willing to break the greatest story since Watergate despite all of the fabulous evidence everywhere on the internet because the Bush family network is just that completely brilliant, amazingly powerful and all controlling?"

Feel free to use that.

If they were impacted by facts, they wouldn't be truthers in the first place. Like moon landing deniers, etc, no amount of facts will alter anything.

[26 Inf]

I always go with..."So your basic premise is that George Bush (43), who we generally accept is a D student

I get what you are saying, but in fairness to GWB (of whom I wasn't a huge fan) I think the 'D student' was a result more of negligence than lack of intellect.

I've read numerous books written by folks who dealt with Bush while he was President, they general portray him as somewhat engaged, able to ask relevant questions. A most recent example is the book Playing To The Edge by Michael Hayden. In that book, Hayden portrays Bush as tuned in and consistently able to discuss security issues with knowledge and understanding. Of course, he could be fibbing.

I've often thought that Bush's malapropisms were a result of thinking well beyond what he was saying.

I'm pissed because Bush did dodge the draft, but he is one of the folks I would genuinely like to sit with of an afternoon, drinking tea and BSing.

[sgtrock82]

Dodged the draft? How so? I know he was a qualified F-102 pilot in the Air Guard and his attendance wasnt exactly exemplary but was not beyond the pale either. No matter how you try to piece the argument together he didnt "dodge"a draft unless you are going to consider other Guard personnel draft dodgers too

Had the F-102 been the type of aircraft needed in SEA he might of had to go. However few where sent and they didnt see much use and one doesnt simply pluck pilots from one jet and drop them into another.

Clinton is the quintessential draft dodger, Ive heard there is even a photo of him burning his draft card. Thats Dodging.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

[Doc Safari]

They made a movie about George W. Bush's Vietnam service.

It was called, "Full Dinner Jacket."

[ramairthree]

Dodged the draft? How so? I know he was a qualified F-102 pilot in the Air Guard and his attendance wasnt exactly exemplary but was not beyond the pale either. No matter how you try to piece the argument together he didnt "dodge"a draft unless you are going to consider other Guard personnel draft dodgers too

Had the F-102 been the type of aircraft needed in SEA he might of had to go. However few where sent and they didnt see much use and one doesnt simply pluck pilots from one jet and drop them into another.

Clinton is the quintessential draft dodger, Ive heard there is even a photo of him burning his draft card. Thats Dodging.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

A shit ton of people specifically hit the guard as a way to avoid Vietnam.
Yes, the catch all phrase draft dodger is not specific and not entirely precise.

With the exception of an engineer company, a couple of artillery companies, and one Ranger Company that to some degree all tried and wanted to go,
National guard service if the era was specifically sought out to avoid combat service in Vietnam.

Perhaps the term combat dodger, or Vietnam dodger would more clearly describe it.

[Diamondback]

Lemme tell you guys what a prof who flew F-106s (improved Deuce) told me. Basically, in 1972 the Deuces were the "Pull The Goalies" last line of defense, where if they were called to launch it meant "mass of Commie Bears inbound and launch anything that can carry a gun or a missile."

This carries special significance given that the Deuce's older AIM-4 Falcon missiles were POS'es--your only effective weapon was the AIR-2A Genie nuclear air-to-air-rocket, and the Deuce couldn't outrun the blast. (The Six was just enough better that it COULD, but it also had more integration with SAGE ground remote-control and controllers who were more likely than not to say "if you don't have any missiles left you ARE the missile" and kamikaze you into the nearest Bear whether you have time to bail or SAR can come fish you out of the ocean or not.) As my prof described the flight profile, "so you're up there, and you point your nose into the middle of a clump of bombers and you flip the Genie, snap that bird around and shove that throttle as far forward as it will go--and if you're LUCKY you will live long enough to land your plane and maybe hold your loved ones one last time before radiation poisoning kills you." It takes definite courage to risk the gamble knowing that if the dice get tossed and come up snake eyes you're basically gonna be a nuclear kamikaze...

[The_War_Wagon]

I always go with...

Too complex. I always say, "Soooooo... which building did Cheney fly HIS plane into? WTC #2, or the Pentagon?"

[soulezoo]

Lemme tell you guys what a prof who flew F-106s (improved Deuce) told me. Basically, in 1972 the Deuces were the "Pull The Goalies" last line of defense, where if they were called to launch it meant "mass of Commie Bears inbound and launch anything that can carry a gun or a missile."

This carries special significance given that the Deuce's older AIM-4 Falcon missiles were POS'es--your only effective weapon was the AIR-2A Genie nuclear air-to-air-rocket, and the Deuce couldn't outrun the blast. (The Six was just enough better that it COULD, but it also had more integration with SAGE ground remote-control and controllers who were more likely than not to say "if you don't have any missiles left you ARE the missile" and kamikaze you into the nearest Bear whether you have time to bail or SAR can come fish you out of the ocean or not.) As my prof described the flight profile, "so you're up there, and you point your nose into the middle of a clump of bombers and you flip the Genie, snap that bird around and shove that throttle as far forward as it will go--and if you're LUCKY you will live long enough to land your plane and maybe hold your loved ones one last time before radiation poisoning kills you." It takes definite courage to risk the gamble knowing that if the dice get tossed and come up snake eyes you're basically gonna be a nuclear kamikaze...

This,
I knew an AF Col that was very engaged with southern states air ops for 10 years that included W's guard time. What he told me was that Cuban/Russian goings on were still a foremost priority and it was felt that the USSR would take advantage of something in Vietnam that would distract enough to let them through on a strike of some sort. That guard unit was tip of the spear. Guard unit or no, one did not become a fighter pilot by being a dummy. Sure, could dad pull strings? Yes. But unless W. was competent, he would be given a different assignment. F-102 driving in that era was no joke.

[SteyrAUG]

My favorite one came two weeks ago. Kid in his late teens telling me, "I'm pretty sure my polymer AR receiver will outlast those aluminum ones."

You're first mistake is having a gun debate with a kid in his late teens. Seriously most of us believed some really stupid shit back then.

[SteyrAUG]

If they were impacted by facts, they wouldn't be truthers in the first place. Like moon landing deniers, etc, no amount of facts will alter anything.

I just want them to be forced to admit Bush (43) was an evil genius like nobody has ever seen before. I mean he actually pulled it off if any of their shit it true right?