8 months of observations working at gun shop/in-door range.

[SteyrAUG]

I get what you are saying, but in fairness to GWB (of whom I wasn't a huge fan) I think the 'D student' was a result more of negligence than lack of intellect.

I've read numerous books written by folks who dealt with Bush while he was President, they general portray him as somewhat engaged, able to ask relevant questions. A most recent example is the book Playing To The Edge by Michael Hayden. In that book, Hayden portrays Bush as tuned in and consistently able to discuss security issues with knowledge and understanding. Of course, he could be fibbing.

I've often thought that Bush's malapropisms were a result of thinking well beyond what he was saying.

I'm pissed because Bush did dodge the draft, but he is one of the folks I would genuinely like to sit with of an afternoon, drinking tea and BSing.

I'm just playing to the usual premise these types hold. Not sure serving stateside qualifies as dodging the draft, it's not like he went to Canada or Cambridge.

I'm kind of "meh" on Bush. I don't hate him but also don't care. I'm mostly disappointed because he seemed to miss one opportunity after another. Best thing I can say about him is he wasn't Gore or Kerry, and he wasn't one of the worst Presidents of recent memory like his father was.

[26 Inf]

Dodged the draft? How so? I know he was a qualified F-102 pilot in the Air Guard and his attendance wasnt exactly exemplary but was not beyond the pale either. No matter how you try to piece the argument together he didnt "dodge"a draft unless you are going to consider other Guard personnel draft dodgers too.

Had the F-102 been the type of aircraft needed in SEA he might of had to go. However few where sent and they didnt see much use and one doesnt simply pluck pilots from one jet and drop them into another.

Clinton is the quintessential draft dodger, Ive heard there is even a photo of him burning his draft card. That's Dodging.

Let's kind of take them one at a time:

he was a qualified F-102 pilot in the Air Guard and his attendance wasnt exactly exemplary but was not beyond the pale either

Not necessarily true, I turned 18 on June 1, 1972, June 18th, 1972, I was in boot camp. At my first duty station (7th Engineers, Camp Pendleton) I served with two guys who had missed drills and been sent to active duty in the 1970 to 1971 time frame, they both got out shortly after I got there, I ended up getting assigned to one of their positions.

No matter how you try to piece the argument together he didnt "dodge"a draft unless you are going to consider other Guard personnel draft dodgers too

Yep, unless you had been in the Guard/Reserves for several years at the time the draft kicked off (December 1969), that is exactly what I consider them. President Trump's debilitating bone spurs and President Clinton's maneuvering put them in that same corner in my opinion. I know, I'm a harsh MF'er. But, let's face it, VN was not a war rich kids had to attend.

Had the F-102 been the type of aircraft needed in SEA he might of had to go. However few where sent and they didnt see much use and one doesnt simply pluck pilots from one jet and drop them into another.

Sell them wolf cookies elsewhere. 1) The F-102 flew in VN up till 1968; 2) No Air Guard units were activated and sent to VN.

[ramairthree]

Preach it 26 Inf.

Those so highly honorable guard veterans,
Such esteemed selfless personnel.

Dodging the Nam.

Seriously.

We were made for war.

Who in their right mind would waste a perfectly good chance at war and not test their mettle at a SOF pipeline and getting their combat on.

[JC5188]

A shit ton of people specifically hit the guard as a way to avoid Vietnam.
Yes, the catch all phrase draft dodger is not specific and not entirely precise.

With the exception of an engineer company, a couple of artillery companies, and one Ranger Company that to some degree all tried and wanted to go,
National guard service if the era was specifically sought out to avoid combat service in Vietnam.

Perhaps the term combat dodger, or Vietnam dodger would more clearly describe it.

Once heard a Limbaugh skit that described W’s NG service as “keeping the skies of Texas safe from Charlie”.

Lol...

[Firefly]

Howdy,

Ramairthree, you obviously never served. When I was in the Civil Air Patrol, those belt keepers saved our hides from Charlie. How else are we gonna keep our Beretta 93Rs holstered?

You play too much Goast Reckon son. Us adults are talking. I EARNED my bragging rights at my two week indoc with the Cub Scout Youth Auxiliary. We did dark shit in Vietnam, Hung Lo, Margaret Cho, and other Chinese places you never heard of.

Let us grown ups speak. You never had to waste fitty charlies with a Beretta 93R chambered in 9x25 Dillon with a Full Otto Barrett loaded with Rufus Rounds. You weren’t THERE maaaan

Firefly

[chuckman]

If you seriously want to get into the whole guard/reserve then, don't forget that it was largely those people who kept the lines intact in Korea. A substantial number of Marines in Korea were reservists, and at that point none of the reservists had even been to boot camp.

Whether Bush used the air guard to get out of going to Vietnam war to stay close to home or to fly cool jets or the wear nomex, I could not care less. He served.

Some of y'all got sand in your vajayjays.

[Korgs130]

Let's kind of take them one at a time:

he was a qualified F-102 pilot in the Air Guard and his attendance wasnt exactly exemplary but was not beyond the pale either

Not necessarily true, I turned 18 on June 1, 1972, June 18th, 1972, I was in boot camp. At my first duty station (7th Engineers, Camp Pendleton) I served with two guys who had missed drills and been sent to active duty in the 1970 to 1971 time frame, they both got out shortly after I got there, I ended up getting assigned to one of their positions.

No matter how you try to piece the argument together he didnt "dodge"a draft unless you are going to consider other Guard personnel draft dodgers too

Yep, unless you had been in the Guard/Reserves for several years at the time the draft kicked off (December 1969), that is exactly what I consider them. President Trump's debilitating bone spurs and President Clinton's maneuvering put them in that same corner in my opinion. I know, I'm a harsh MF'er. But, let's face it, VN was not a war rich kids had to attend.

Had the F-102 been the type of aircraft needed in SEA he might of had to go. However few where sent and they didnt see much use and one doesnt simply pluck pilots from one jet and drop them into another.

Sell them wolf cookies elsewhere. 1) The F-102 flew in VN up till 1968; 2) No Air Guard units were activated and sent to VN.

1) True
2) False. Here are some of the ANG squadrons to be activated for VN:

120th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Colorado ANG
174th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Iowa ANG
136th Tactical Fighter Squadron, New York ANG
188th Tactical Fighter Squadron, New Mexico ANG

These Air Guard squadrons were all activated and served year long tours in Viet Nam flying F-100s. They flew a combined 24,124 combat sorties and accumulated 38,614 combat flying hours.

Fighter Intercepter Squadrons, active duty, ANG and USAFR performed a critical Cold War mission. Regardless what anyone thinks about GWB, completing USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training is no easy task. Finishing F-102 RTU would have been even tougher. The F-102 was a difficult jet to fly and had an extremely high mishap rate of 13.7 per 100,000 flight hours. That’s more than 4 times more that say an F-15. Of the 875 F-102s that when into USAF service, 259 were lost in mishaps. Those mishaps killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots.

I find it hard to call anyone who served as a Delta Dart driver a draft/combat dodger.

[JC5188]

Just want to be clear...I’m not disparaging anyone’s service, just repeated a funny skit I heard on rush Limbaugh show many moons ago.

Our local ANG hot rod around daily in F-16s, and those guys ain’t no joke.

[Todd00000]

I always go with...

"So your basic premise is that George Bush (43), who we generally accept is a D student, orchestrated and executed the largest, most elaborate and complex conspiracy in the history of modern times and did so in such a comprehensive way that he either obligated every politician into a position of participation or fear or retribution and nobody in credible media is willing to break the greatest story since Watergate despite all of the fabulous evidence everywhere on the internet because the Bush family network is just that completely brilliant, amazingly powerful and all controlling?"

Feel free to use that.

I have similar spiel for Truthers and one for non-Moon Landers.

[Firefly]

Bush will never know the thrill of dropping Napalm on Communists. That is his punishment and loss.

Kinda sad his wife has a confirmed kill and he doesn’t. And she wasn’t as mouthy as Michael Obama.

Still Bush would not be welcome in my gunstore but I would lose my FFL over AOC. Don’t care. But she would Lord of War me though because she wouldn’t deign let her husband/baby daddy be in Jail